Probably why I won't ride a crotch rocket

[Freefaller]

i would say 50/50 also
bike going stupid speed = yes , car making illegal overtake into oncoming traffic = yes

like you say car driver had no time to react but the biker also didnt expect the car to pull out into oncoming traffic and also had no time to react

who's ever fault it was very sad

I've been saying this till I'm blue in the face, but the sofa/keyboard warriors just know it all and know it best and just won't accept it. Let's just hope they don't cross me on the road or do a stupid manoeuvre as I don't take too kindly to them. The 2 times I've been knocked off my bike it's ALWAYS been a drivers fault - not because I was going too quick mind, it was pure lack of skill, observation and plain carelessness on their behalf. The police to their defence were 100% supportive of me, though initially I *know* their suspicions were on me - typical anti-biker attitude, but it's fair enough, a few give us all a bad name, and there's a lot of envy from people in their slow cars, and being stuck in traffic.

However most car drivers, just don't care and a) make room for us (thanks ), b) are considerate c) really don't care and would rather be in the comfort of A/C (that I do envy!!! )

What I'm getting at is that there is an instant blame for hte biker just because he's going to over take (because they can easily and safely owing to the acceleration) and because they are seen as antisocial. People in general just don't like bikes - that's a fact.

People ignore the fact that had it been 2 cars, the first car would have been blamed for pulling out, sure the 2nd car would have been accused of doing a silly overtake too - however THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING. It's BOTH their fault. I admit I feel more sympathetic towards the bikes because I'm slightly biased, and because it cost him his life, however how on earth people can say the car had nothing to do with it beggars belief.

 

[helpimcrap]

Again, totally agree.



Apologies, "cagers" are what a lot of bikers on bike related forums refer to as car drivers. Didn't mean to offend or insult anyone, its not really a derogatory term, its not intended to be so, but maybe it is not too common so that's why a lot of car drivers have not heard of it?.

The term "cagers" actually originates from the USA, I prefer to use a much more subtle term for cars - "Mobile Chicanes".

Cage comes from the term "baby cage" - maybe . it's a term used to describe a box which you are trapped in until you find a way out when you're a baby. i really need parenting classes but as i have no kids baby cages are fine by me.

at some point someone will tell me to stop talking crap. please do. lol

 

[Bucket]

After watching it several times I have concluded;

WTF AT THE CAR DRIVER?

Heck, the biker was going fast, but you can see that he was well within to overtake there, and the car driver had absolutely no chance, whipped out, the biker tried to move out of the way and slowed, but unfortunately it wasnt enough.

It's both their faults, but that car driver....well, can't say i'm surprised, i've seen enough people these days driving cars like idiots not paying attention and going about in their own lala world.

 

[mejinks]

The car being overtaken had pulled right over to let he car driver through though. How many people here wouldn't have done the same manouver?

 

[Freefaller]

The car being overtaken had pulled right over to let he car driver through though. How many people here wouldn't have done the same manouver?

So? Doesn't give you the carte blanche to overtake does it - certainly not a car with oncoming traffic.

 

[mejinks]

So? Doesn't give you the carte blanche to overtake does it - certainly not a car with oncoming traffic.

Oh no certainly not. Im just asking that given the situation, if people were in the overtaking car, wouldn't they have completed the same manouver? It was a bad place for the car to overtake and he obviously didn't hit the bike deliberately, but he didn't have time to see the biker until he was overtaking.

I wouldn't say 50/50, but maybe 25/75

 

[Freefaller]

Who said it was deliberate? Of course it wasn't - but how you can't see it's 50/50 for doing a dangerous overtake I don't know. I'm glad I don't live in your neck of the woods if that's deemed normal behaviour!

 

[mejinks]

Its clearly an emotive subject for a lot of people Will so I'm not going to say any more on the subject and thankfully I've not had an accident in 10 years of driving with my driving style. Maybe I'm lucky?

I agree that the car drivers negligence contributed to the death of the biker, but the bikers excessive speed and driving was the greater contributing factor in my opinion.

 

[Freefaller]

Contributing factor or not it's still 50/50.

I haven't had any accidents in 11 years either (in the car), bar the 2 times I was knocked off my bike by other people but there was nothing I could have done about it, bar the fact I hadn't been on a bike.

 

[TaKeN]

The car being overtaken had pulled right over to let he car driver through though. How many people here wouldn't have done the same manouver?

Maybe the car had seen the bikers coming and moved over to make safe space to pass?

Mr car driver decides to make a darn right dangerous overtake without checking his mirrors properly.

I used to ride a scooter and a 125cc Motorbike and it realy does tune your senses up as mentioned by several bikers in here. I look much further ahead down the road than the average car driver and can spot things coming a long way off (I hope I don't live to regret saying that one day!)

In daily driving if I see a bike coming up behind I will change my road positioning to allow him to pass and make eye contact with him/her in my side mirror to reasure them that I see them, surely this doesn't make it my fault if they choose to overtake though?

I was always taught to change my road positioning based on bends etc (by an ex traffic cop) staying firmly in the middle of your lane doesn't make sense to me

Mejinks that whole post wasn't aimed at you, I just thought some of it was relavent towards your post.

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

There's something wrong if you pin most of the blame on the car driver here...
It was a hideously questionable overtake, and if the driver looked in their mirrors, they didn't look far enough back.
One thing that would have stopped the accident though, is the biker not being a speeding fool.

Plenty bike accidents seem to have bikers jumping to their defence, blaming the "idiot" car drivers.
That biker has just proven in that video that he is a complete moron. 170mph on public roads? No. Don't do that. You will die if the slightest thing goes wrong.

 

[Burned_Alive]

Contributing factor or not it's still 50/50.

I haven't had any accidents in 11 years either (in the car), bar the 2 times I was knocked off my bike by other people but there was nothing I could have done about it, bar the fact I hadn't been on a bike.

Would you agree that although the accident may be 50/50, the bikers speed probably ultimately caused his death? As that's kind of the way I see it.

 

[BF-Bert]

can't see the car driver being at fault at all, they signalled and were pulling out while the bike was still well behind them....... the fact the bike continued to try and pass is not their fault.

 

[Dogbreath]

Sorry to be a pedant, but no-one can legally exceed the speed limit. The Police are guilty of an offence every time they exceed the speed limit, they just aren't prosecuted because they have Crown Exemption.

Completely incorrect.

The exemption given to Police officers exceeding the speed limit in the course of their duty, is exemption from parts of the RTA itself, thus they DO NOT break the law by exceeding speed limits. Do not confuse this with an exemption from prosecution.

Obviously they are not exempt from careless or dangerous driving, and can and are prosecuted for these offences.

 

[james.miller]

People ignore the fact that had it been 2 cars, the first car would have been blamed for pulling out, sure the 2nd car would have been accused of doing a silly overtake too - however THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING. It's BOTH their fault. I admit I feel more sympathetic towards the bikes because I'm slightly biased, and because it cost him his life, however how on earth people can say the car had nothing to do with it beggars belief.

had the bike have been a car, it would most probably have not been doing 100mph and accelerating and would have been a lot more visible. i honestly dont think that fact is being ignored, i just think the time the car driver actually had to react was too small to do anything. and nobody else seems to have mentioned the fact that the biker was still accelerating and tried to overtake the overtaking car. why didnt he slow down?

 

[Dogbreath]

He is sat in he rear right of that car, the other car is towards the left. creating a perfect blind spot.

Are you looking at a different video? He never tucks in behind the Peugeot, there is blatantly a clear line of site between the hatchback and the bike. If the driver had looked immediately prior to pulling out he would have seen the bike.

 

[sormicoft]

indicating when the bike overtook the pug

f

i think these pictures show that the bike would have been plenty visible,

not too up on the bike he was riding but i would assume as 99% of bikers be running with lights on,

feel well placed to comment on this being a car driver as well as previously owning a (rather not so quick) TT600.

if you look at the pics above the rider should be visible to the car driver, if he checks his mirrors. i mean he really should be looking at more than the car thats immediately behind him and if you see a single HID hovering near the middle of the road its safe to assume theres a bike coming through shortly


Mistakes on both sides i feel, but you cant help but feel sorry for all those involved and their families.

the biker was giving it some, always risky in traffic, the car driver i feel didnt check his mirrors or blindspot before pulling out. Its easy done i've done it myself before you can forget your not the fastest thing on the road and dont think to look before pulling out.

 

[Snaggle]

had the bike have been a car, it would most probably have not been doing 100mph and accelerating and would have been a lot more visible. i honestly dont think that fact is being ignored, i just think the time the car driver actually had to react was too small to do anything. and nobody else seems to have mentioned the fact that the biker was still accelerating and tried to overtake the overtaking car. why didnt he slow down?

And if you had seen the Utube vid that was supplied by the police you would have seen the driver indicate AS he made the manuver and as soon as the biker sees it he brakes hard . This cant be seen in the newspaper vid . He moved over looking for somewhere to go as the car pulled out on him . he did not acclerate past

Persil

 

[CaPtBlaCk]

i think these pictures show that the bike would have been plenty visible,

Total time between overtaking the 1st car until impact looks just over 1 second. Without knowing the full facts of the overtake between the white/impact vehicles then you only have half of the story. I suspect the authorities have poured over the incident and if any blame can be attributed to the overtake vehicle then I am sure that charges will follow.

However, ultimately I think it is safe to say that the bike rider was responsible for his own sad demise. He forgot to ride defensively and took a chance at great speed with no possibility of escape. He made one too may assumptions with catastrophic consequences.

Unfortunately the aftermath will live on for a very long time for those that witnessed it.

 

[Glaucus]

I think it's safe to say that if the driver was prosecuted it would be in the paper.
It is just not reasonable to expect drivers or riders to anticipate such stupid moves.