Homeopathy

Mr Jones · 11 Jun 2009 at 08:50

You're better off drinking Honey (and a little bit of lemon), drink it luke warm.

deuse · 11 Jun 2009 at 08:58

Homeopathy the word Sounds Gay to me.

But there again you could have Gayfever instead of Hayfever

footman · 11 Jun 2009 at 09:48

I did a course on homoeopathy many many years ago and started to prescribe it in my practice to treat conditions that were unresponsive to conventional therapies

I saw absolutely no evidence that it worked on any kind of clinical level.

However, I saw 2 cases (children referred to me by a Consultant Dermatologist) that proved what a fantastic placebo effect it can have.

One thing I don't understand though is its use in veterinary medicine. I know 2 farmers who have dairy herds.
Both switched to homoeopathic treatments some years ago and both swear that they have healthier cows at much less cost.

magick · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:01

Angilion said:
Doctors don't spend 7 years playing World of Warcraft and then in complete ignorance randomly prescribe drugs that companies just put on sale without any testing.

I am willing to trust my health to a highly trained specialist using their expertise and appropriate equipment to make a diagnosis and suggest an effective treatment. I am also willing to trust years of studies culminating in further studies on numerous people, studies that are double-blind placebo trials, in order to determine the effectiveness and risk of a drug.

I don't expect it to be a magic potion of extra healing (although sometimes it's pretty much as effective as one), but I do expect it to have a very high probability of working without serious side effects and I have good reason to do so.

Angilion you may be a bit naive putting your absolute faith into people and institutions that are in the pockets of big pharmiceutical corporations.

You might want to watch this documentary :-
In lies we trust - CIA, Hollywood and Bioterroism

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dowie · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:06

Stretch said:
My mother sent me and my brother to homeopath until became too expensive, probably about 10-15 years. Until a few years after stopping my brother had never had an antibiotic in his life, and my mother and I had only taken them prior to seeing the homeopath. I can’t be sure if it works, but I wouldn't be so dismissive. It certainly worked for us during the period we used it, and I think it has more merit that a lot of other alternative medicine.

Ok so your mother is a bit dim/naive

I had a chat with the homeopath whilst I was at one of the appointments, and he explained a bit about how it "works". It's not so different to modern medicine. Basically they give you a very low dose of something that produces the same symptoms as the ailment you are trying to treat. This has the effect of aiding the body to negate the effects of the ailment. Not too dissimilar to vaccination, but has a much broader scope.

now you're just gullible - go do some research - you've got access to the internet - if you still believe this stuff then you're quite frankly incredibly stupid

Stretch · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:11

I fancy boys said:
There's quite a lot of ignorance in this thread

No ****. This thread (in fact the whole forum) is beginning to feel a bit like The Sun "have your say". The cries of nonsense from people the know sweat fa about what they're talking about is laughable.

dowie said:
Ok so your mother is a bit dim/naive

**** you, your mother's a whore.

dowie said:
now you're just gullible - go do some research - you've got access to the internet - if you still believe this stuff then you're quite frankly incredibly stupid.

And **** you again.

Knubje · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:15

magick said:
Angilion you may be a bit naive putting your absolute faith into people and institutions that are in the pockets of big pharmiceutical corporations.

You might want to watch this documentary :-
In lies we trust - CIA, Hollywood and Bioterroism

All well and good. His original point still stands tbh.

I'd rather visit a medical professional who has studied for years and learnt from experiences whilst using modern technology to diagnose and hopefully treat me.

If I was really ill, I wouldn't visit some quack and pay the moron £60 to "diagnose" and "treat" me.

You're conspiracy theories are all well and good but in this case I would 100% goto a doctor and not a homo....EOPATH!

magick · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:25

Knubje said:
All well and good. His original point still stands tbh.

I'd rather visit a medical professional who has studied for years and learnt from experiences whilst using modern technology to diagnose and hopefully treat me.

If I was generally ill, I wouldn't visit some quack and pay the moron £60 to "diagnose" and "treat" me.

You're conspiracy theories are all well and good but in this case I would 100% goto a doctor and not a homo....EOPATH!

I'm not saying don't goto a doctor, i'm saying you should realise that western health is skewed towards big profits for pharmiceutical companies not making people healthy. The health companies have a vested interest in making you maintain there treatment for as long as possible however many homeopaths could also come under the same category I suppose. But don't knock homeopathy and natural healing just because western medicine (i.e. western pharmiceutical corporations) doesn't endorse it.

First and foremost 80% of ALL illness in the US, and probably in the UK, is stress related and can be eliminated without the use medication by eating a healthy diet and eliminating stress in your life through meditation or exercise. The health industry or rather the health corporations behind them don't emphasise this as much as it's more profitable for you instead to goto a doctor and he administers you with there tablets/pills.

Stretch · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:25

Knubje said:
If I was really ill, I wouldn't visit some quack and pay the moron £60 to "diagnose" and "treat" me.

I don't think anyone would disagree with this. Homeopathy isn't really indented to treat serious illness. The problem is doctors over prescribe powerful antibiotics and other medicines that are completely unnecessary, bad for the patient and society as a whole. I think alternative medicine has some part to play, if only to stop people taking too many damaging drugs.

And tbh doctors have prescribed me all sorts of treatments that have failed to work, the only difference is its "free" on the NHS.

dowie · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:25

Stretch said:
No ****. This thread (in fact the whole forum) is beginning to feel a bit like The Sun "have your say". The cries of nonsense from people the know sweat fa about what they're talking about is laughable.

**** you, your mother's a whore.

And **** you again.

Maybe I misjudged you, you've now come across as a very intelligent person.

Or maybe not.....

I mean come on, perhpas your mum can't use a computer and so has an excuse for being massively ignorant but I don't see what excuse you have - go do some reading! The majority of people who have posted in this thread are bang on - magic sugar pills and magic water have no effect other than a placebo effect.

I suggest you order a copy of this book too:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Science...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245147898&sr=8-1

Stretch · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:36

dowie said:
Maybe I misjudged you, you've now come across as a very intelligent person.

Or maybe not.....

I mean come on, perhpas your mum can't use a computer and so has an excuse for being massively ignorant but I don't see what excuse you have - go do some reading! The majority of people who have posted in this thread are bang on - magic sugar pills and magic water have no effect other than a placebo effect.

I suggest you order a copy of this book too:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Science...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245147898&sr=8-1

You're so intelligent you've missed the point complexly. But I won’t waste my breath. And if you go around making unsubstantiated comments about other peoples family members, you can't be surprised at the response.

People take it because it works for them. That's all that matters.

oli collett · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:37

Stretch said:
No ****. This thread (in fact the whole forum) is beginning to feel a bit like The Sun "have your say". The cries of nonsense from people the know sweat fa about what they're talking about is laughable.

I think Dowie was being a tad harsh there, but to compare this thread to The Sun, on the basis that people are calling out homeopathy as nonsense?

magick said:
I'm not saying don't goto a doctor, i'm saying you should realise that western health is skewed towards big profits for pharmiceutical companies not making people healthy. The health companies have a vested interest in making you maintain there treatment for as long as possible however many homeopaths could also come under the same category I suppose. But don't knock homeopathy and natural healing just because western medicine (i.e. western pharmiceutical corporations) doesn't endorse it.

Yep, it's all a big conspiracy, I want to believe, tinfoil, yadda-yadda. I guess you missed the bit about how "western medicine", by which I assume you mean science based medicine, is the one that actually comes under far more scrutiny, where drugs have to go through proper testing procedures and reviews before they are approved.

On the contrary, "alternative medicine" like homeopathy involves no double-blinded trials (which are very easy to do), no peer-reviewed journals, no strict controls and standards. You just have to stick something on the shelf and say "this product is for when you're feeling a bit tired" with no evidence and fill your pills with sugar.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, homeopathic companies make millions in profit yet haven't ever produced any credible evidence that their products work better than a placebo. IF it was so effective, then why don't the mainstream "big pharma" companies pick up on it and start selling it as medicine, given that there's so much money to be made?

magick said:
First and foremost 80% of ALL illness in the US, and probably in the UK, is stress related and can be eliminated without the use medication by eating a healthy diet and eliminating stress in your life through meditation or exercise.

Got any references for that "fact"? The healthy diet bit sounds like you've extracted it from a book by someone like Patrick Holford or a similar quack.

magick said:
The health industry or rather the health corporations behind them don't emphasise this as much as it's more profitable for you instead to goto a doctor and he administers you with there tablets/pills.

I quite agree that it's wrong that we're living in a world where you are prescribed a pill for just about anything. But have you missed that it's exactly what homeopaths do? The only difference being, the pills they sell have no active ingredient in them?

Finally Magick, do yourself a favour and read bad science by Ben Goldacre. It might not do a lot for your physical health but I can guarantee it'll do something for your mental health.

Monkey Puzzle · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:41

magick said:
Angilion you may be a bit naive putting your absolute faith into people and institutions that are in the pockets of big pharmiceutical corporations.

You might want to watch this documentary :-
In lies we trust - CIA, Hollywood and Bioterroism

Sigh. You're still believing fools I see.

Stretch · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:47

oli collett said:
I think Dowie was being a tad harsh there, but to compare this thread to The Sun, on the basis that people are calling out homeopathy as nonsense?

It's the, "it must be true, I've read a bit about it on the internet" mentality I’m referring to.

All I said was don't be so dismissive, and try to provide a bit more information on the philosophy of the treatment. But apparently that makes my mum stupid.

dowie · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:54

Stretch said:
And if you go around making unsubstantiated comments about other peoples family members, you can't be surprised at the response.

it wasn't unsubstantiated though - you explicitly stated that.

My mother sent me and my brother to homeopath until became too expensive, probably about 10-15 years.

That is quit frankly more than a bit naive.

oli collett · 16 Jun 2009 at 11:54

Stretch said:
It's the, "it must be true, I've read a bit about it on the internet" mentality I’m referring to.

All I said was don't be so dismissive, and try to provide a bit more information on the philosophy of the treatment. But apparently that makes my mum stupid.

The "it must be true, I've read a bit about it on the internet" is quite useful though, I can get stuff like this

A systematic review of systematic reviews of homeopathy
E Ernst

int · 16 Jun 2009 at 12:00

Stretch said:
I don't think anyone would disagree with this. Homeopathy isn't really indented to treat serious illness. The problem is doctors over prescribe powerful antibiotics and other medicines that are completely unnecessary, bad for the patient and society as a whole. I think alternative medicine has some part to play, if only to stop people taking too many damaging drugs.

And tbh doctors have prescribed me all sorts of treatments that have failed to work, the only difference is its "free" on the NHS.

Would you rather have an over powerful treatment that cures your ailment or start off on a weaker alternative only to find it doesn't work and thus you still need to progress to the more powerful treatments? The damage caused by the latter because you've waited too long for working treatment could greatly outweigh the damage caused by an over powerful treatment.

They don't do it for fun, it's to treat you as quickly as possible so that you're no longer a burden on the already under staffed and over worked health system.

And not all treatments work for all patients, it takes time to fine tune a specific regime per person especially in cases with cancers, parkinsons, dementia etc.
No two people are alike and unfortunately people have got it in their head that if it's prescribed, it will work and that when it doesn't, the doctors or pharmaceutical companies are to blame.

Mr Jack · 16 Jun 2009 at 12:00

Stretch said:
People take it because it works for them. That's all that matters.

People take it because they believe it works for them.

They're wrong; and they're wasting their money and promoting hooey as a result. Worse because muppets like Prince Charles have supported their cause we're now wasting millions of pounds of taxpayer money on these bogus "treatments".

int · 16 Jun 2009 at 12:05

Mr Jack said:
People take it because they believe it works for them.

They're wrong; and they're wasting their money and promoting hooey as a result. Worse because muppets like Prince Charles have supported their cause we're now wasting millions of pounds of taxpayer money on these bogus "treatments".

If someone believes it works and some alleviation of their ailment is seen, then there's no real harm in that.

The placebo effect is extremely powerful and not understood in the slightest, but there is strong evidence suggesting that it can be used as a medical treatment.

What annoys me here is the theory behind homeopathy and the people that believe it is hard science and somehow better than the drugs you get off the shelf at Boots.
If homeopathy has any effect, it is a placebo effect and nothing else.

dekez · 16 Jun 2009 at 12:12

int said:
If homeopathy has any effect, it is a placebo effect and nothing else.

+1