Are you happy being spied on by Virgin media?

[Defiance_co]

I jumped off the 20meg virgin after being with ntl for years

Went to o2 adsl

The capping/throttling was a joke, 2wks of not having a pc proved this ...........

First day back online with pc i was throttled during the set times, not even downloaded anything lmao, people think that if you dl x amount the throttling kicks in, i found it was a blanket throttling not dependant on amount you've downloaded so it was purely a timed throttling

Best thing i did was to drop ntl/virgin phone and cable

Now back ot, the spying part is bad, with people willing to say and live with the attitude that spying is ok if you're not doing anything is really too much lol

eg: mr average is a law abiding person, yet mr big brother follows mr average to work-pubs-car rides-holidays-loo breaks in fact you name it you are tracked, would mr average be willing to put up with this ??? i really doubt it

 

[Pixel]

I'll never use BT or VM because of the whole Phorm debacle.

For those that don't know, BT were caught sending the browsing histories of their customers (without their consent) to Phorm so they could return relevant advertisements to those customers. This was a prelude to doing this on a national scale, but they cancelled it when people found out and got angry.

 

[krooton]

Seems like everybody wants to "crack down" on the illegals of the internets but I can't imagine a worse way of doing it really. Except sending letters to everybody that uses P2P.........

Yet sentencing for people committing real, physical crimes and being convicted are a joke.

 

[GreatAuk]

If I'm being naughty then I deserve to be spied upon.

this

 

[tntcoder]

this

The point is getting spied on when your're not being naughty.

 

[Weaver]

P2P for illegal means is more trouble than it's worth nowadays. That's how the likes of Davenport Lyons stick their nose in.

DPI is only one of a number of tools in the P2P sleuth's armoury and, as it happens, not the most useful one, and almost certainly not the one that got used if you've ever had a 'cease and desist' (or worse).

As for Net Neutrality. Pipedream. Nowadays there's too much vested interest (both financial realities from ISPs and government meddling) in seeing that we don't ever get Net neutrality. I'm not talking conspiracies here either - it's common knowledge.

Oh, and bad news for everyone. While DPI kit is expensive, a significant (and growing) number of ISPs use it. If you ISP has any form of FUP, then you can bet that they're using DPI (and if they're not, they will soon). I would be very far from surprised if I was told that Virgin were already using DPI.

Of course you’re quite right in what you are saying with regards to net neutrality. The interesting point in your concluding remark is that you wouldn’t be surprised at many other ISP’s using similar software solutions.
FYI VM has been using software developed by Israeli company Allot Communications for at least the last year or two but has always denied both DPI and traffic filtering until now.

.
..

I kept thinking about moving to VM, but there's just no way I'd be able to deal with their caps...

40GB data downloaded in the last 24 hours, at least 100GB in the last month, and more likely double that. Wouldn't want to even try that on VM.

PS - the whole lot was boring XML data used to construct several large databases. Terabytes of it (fortunately, compressed). Boo hiss!

Lol you don’t have to justify to me or anyone else how much perfectly legal downloading you do or not mate.


What I will say though is. As Internet traffic rates worldwide are greatly expanding – between 50 and 60 percent annually – which would require service providers to maintain or increase their current levels of capital investment, while their “all you can eat” broadband service plans continue to provide them flat ARPU. In addition, growth of latency-sensitive traffic (especially video) raises questions whether a satisfactory level of end-user experience can be maintained.

It has become clearer by the day that, business models and software have been adapted and developed to exploit, with the above in mind, by restricting/controlling the use of certain traffic protocols to generate profits by dissection into separate services as is being discussed here. What I find sinister is that file sharing has been highlighted by various agencies as an undesirable, and elevated to represent criminality at unprecedented levels, and in turn the end user yet again faces draconian restrictions in liberty over business/profit.

------

 

[GreatAuk]

The point is getting spied on when your're not being naughty.

Then theres nothing wrong with getting spied on, is there? If you don't have anything to hide, then theres no problem. What exactly would you be worried about? maybe if they let your browsing history go public, but then you'd be able to sue them for loadsa money so it would be ok. The only other thing I can think of is passwords that some guy in the centre might steal, but it's hardly more likely than getting hacked normally.

 

[tntcoder]

Then theres nothing wrong with getting spied on, is there? If you don't have anything to hide, then theres no problem. What exactly would you be worried about? maybe if they let your browsing history go public, but then you'd be able to sue them for loadsa money so it would be ok. The only other thing I can think of is passwords that some guy in the centre might steal, but it's hardly more likely than getting hacked normally.

Yes there's a lot wrong with it.

Saying it is ok and blindly accepting these increasing levels of surveillance as a good citizen in every day life is giving away more and more of your freedoms. If a government (/company) knows every detail about your life e.g location, internet habits, banking, DNA, fingerprints etc, then what freedom do you have left? Its all fading away with less and less privacy. If this data is lost or gets in the wrong hands, then more bad **** can happen, it's a very dangerous cycle of people just accepting everything and saying they have nothing to hide.

 

[LordSplodge]

Then theres nothing wrong with getting spied on, is there? If you don't have anything to hide, then theres no problem. What exactly would you be worried about? maybe if they let your browsing history go public, but then you'd be able to sue them for loadsa money so it would be ok. The only other thing I can think of is passwords that some guy in the centre might steal, but it's hardly more likely than getting hacked normally.

The only answer for your sheep-like post is:

Please spy on me and view and sell my Internet browsing habbits or send me letters saying I have engaged in criminal activity without proof. I don't mind after all I have nothing to hide.

Who needs privacy in the 21st Century?

 

[xb8browney]

Agreed.

However, what is far far more annoying (and on of the reasons I am considering a switch) is the damn caps. Our house has heavy legitimate useage and we very often (read: enough to make it very annoying) trip the throttle.

Also on an unreleated note the V+ box is horrible.

I download 200Gb+ per month no problem. Never been on STM for ages.

New V+ box

 

[xb8browney]

Best Usenet provider for the money with SSL?

astraweb

 

[malef!c]

SSH tunnel time me thinks

From my box to my dedi server.....ok, after that my traffic is fair game but it will bug VM for a bit

 

[xb8browney]

SSH tunnel time me thinks

From my box to my dedi server.....ok, after that my traffic is fair game but it will bug VM for a bit

But your dedi box will have a monthly limit as well?

 

[GreatAuk]

giving away more and more of your freedoms.

But you will still be free to do whatever you want. Nobody is going to take away from you something that you were free to do before. 'They' may be able to watch you partake in whatever freedoms these may be, but they can never take our freedom.

 

[malef!c]

But your dedi box will have a monthly limit as well?

Aye but I don't download gigs and gigs of stuff - all it will do is annoy VM if they try to look at me traffic

 

[Reality|Bites]

To everyone sayins "If your doing nothing wrong you shouldn't bother about it"

We're all coming to stand infront of your homes to stare in the windows at you all. If your doing nothing wrong you should have nothing to worry about.

 

[Dist]

To everyone sayins "If your doing nothing wrong you shouldn't bother about it"

We're all coming to stand infront of your homes to stare in the windows at you all. If your doing nothing wrong you should have nothing to worry about.

Thats not the same thing. VM are simply having an automated system which compares the contents of a packet with a table of content not suitable for uploading. If it is a match there it will be flagged, if not then the data will just be discarded.

You example would only be valid if the people looking through the window instantly forget everything they see that is not already marked as copyright infringment.


My view on the matter is that its VM network and they can do whatever the hell they want with it. If you don't like it, feel free to leave as it leaves more bandwidth for the rest of us.

 

[ChrisJSY]

The point is getting spied on when your're not being naughty.

You make it sound like someones gone into your home and set up surveillance on your phone lines, placed secret cameras and microphones and then sits in a van outside 24/7 for the rest of your life watching your every move.
You do realise (and forgive me if we've changed topic) , that this system is pretty much going to be automated so it will no doubt ignore you and kick off at people who are doing illegal things unsecure.

If for whatever reason it catches someone who's not doing anything wrong, you'd have good proof to show them wrong, right? Receipts, payments, subscriptions to services.

I love it, every single time there's a thread about something similar to this the same kind of people come out of the woodwork with illogical reasons as to why it's bad. Like it's going to interfere with their lives?
We will probably see this system (and better) come in to play as the years go on and I honestly believe I will never care or have any hassle with it.

It's so easy to dismiss it as invasion of privacy or "spying" but it's simply not that. Seriously who cares if you tug your manboat.

To everyone sayins "If your doing nothing wrong you shouldn't bother about it"

We're all coming to stand infront of your homes to stare in the windows at you all. If your doing nothing wrong you should have nothing to worry about.

This is nothing like what the original post is about, nobody is WATCHING you like that.
What you just said just proved my above point, you sound absolutely ridiculous with illogical, unfounded and factless drivel!

 

[tntcoder]

You make it sound like someones gone into your home and set up surveillance on your phone lines, placed secret cameras and microphones and then sits in a van outside 24/7 for the rest of your life watching your every move.
You do realise (and forgive me if we've changed topic) , that this system is pretty much going to be automated so it will no doubt ignore you and kick off at people who are doing illegal things unsecure.

Apologies, I deviated from the topic of VM's DPI system, to the DPI systems / black boxes already in place monitoring all our communications, performing data mining and advanced pattern analysis. Maybe im just being paranoid, but I see this as a sign that this kind of monitoring is moving from the government and starting to appear in the private sector. Sure its just basic pattern matching now, but once the systems in place it will be fairly trivial a few years down the line to do a whole lot more such as customer habit profiling, user prioritzation and phorm-style advertising, take these kind of things and cross-check them with what the government already has on you, and its pretty scary IMO. BT went ahead and did phorm trials without telling anyone, what's to say Virgin wont decide to start building up lists of keywords in unencrypted packets for example, or logging packet headers, this kind of information in bulk quanties is very dangerous, and there's very little industry enforcement as far as im aware?

With respect to ISP level DPI systems, specifically they effect the freedom of the internet & net-neutrality, and that's putting personal privacy issues aside. You get ISPs creating custom rule sets, black-listing & white-listing certain protocols, traffic shaping, user prioritization etc messing with legitimate traffic. This has the knock-on potential to lead to a very 'controlled' internet as long as people keep accepting these kind of systems. I don't like using China as an example, but look at the level they have gone to with packet inspection and content-filtering. More recently this occurred in Iran after the election issues, international news sites being blocked amongst other things. People need to oppose these kind of systems, even if this is just at the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Destination]

You know I’m really getting sick and tired of seeing this statement crop up everywhere with regards to covert surveillances, considering how badly thought out it actually is.

EVERYONE has something to hide including you poster, from bank details to NI number, home address post code and tax details right down to everyday correspondences. It’s the reason why letters delivered to your home are SEALED! This information in the wrong hands could be very damaging.

Here is yet another scenario. Think about this for a second, your online shopping habits combined with credit card and store card profiling allows the profiler to target you with advertisements. Let’s say you buy lots of kosher food products. This information is harmlessly stored in a Dbase, however due to the latest bargain on matzo meal the Dbase sends you out spam mail at Passover regardless wither you are Jewish or not. How many Jewish Europeans do you think would be enamoured about this type of profiling information being stored in Dbases about them?

Sound a bit far fetched? DPI technology is at the centre of PHORMS systems, and behavioural advertising, if you don’t know what that is I suggest you research it.

This is all about targeting and restricting certain traffic in order to cash in, a Quote from Berkett VM's CEO,

'application-based restrictions would form part of a broader strategy to "monetise the intelligence" in the Virgin Media network.'

I am afraid I don't see what your statement and the extrapolation you provide has to do with what I said. I said I don't care what they 'think' they can investigate. What has this to do with specific databases sending me spam mails related to being jewish? What?!?

Some privacy topics are worth fighting over. Trying to maintain privacy for people commiting illegal activities is not. I believe you have misunderstood my point of view, and as such labelled me ignorant. I am reasonably intelligent, and also reasonably well informed. This situation is very different to the picture of society you are painting.