If the charges aren't dropped....

[RDM]

respect is irrelevent, the only thing that is important is obedience, to keep the fear of punishment constant, and then punish the entire class for stupid reasons constantly until no-one does anything because they end up facing insanely over the top consequences. The only choice left is leave the school or fall in line, and thus it works 100%

Your internet psycho act gets a bit dull after a while you know.

 

[platinum87]

Your internet psycho act gets a bit dull after a while you know.

nothing wrong with what i said, it is a simple technique, which was constant in my secondary school, and it works perfectly as it is exactly the type of way that every single military training works..

few teachers as soon as they walk in everybody is as silent as ann frank when the nazi's walked in

your suppose to hate the teachers, almost everyone does, so did i, untill i grew up

 

[Jeff Lynne]

few teachers as soon as they walk in everybody is as silent as ann frank when the nazi's walked in

Nice anology!

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Also I am not sure if I could respect someone whose prime method of motivation was fear of punishment.

That's because you come from a completely different time than me.
In my day you went to school knowing you could get punished but you still held teachers with respect.
In fact, they were the most important person outside of your family.

 

[Monkey Puzzle]

nothing wrong with what i said, it is a simple technique, which was constant in my secondary school, and it works perfectly as it is exactly the type of way that every single military training works..

few teachers as soon as they walk in everybody is as silent as ann frank when the nazi's walked in

your suppose to hate the teachers, almost everyone does, so did i, untill i grew up

That bit is wrong.

 

[platinum87]

That's because you come from a completely different time than me.
In my day you went to school knowing you could get punished but you still held teachers with respect.
In fact, they were the most important person outside of your family.

i think respect comes later, obedience is what is needed firstly, i hated a couple, but i still did what i was told so i dont get detention etc etc.. now i have respect for them.

the method that RDM seem's to support will only have about lets say 5% of people actually doing what they were told, and thats from my school, which was actually pretty good, and was a catholic school

 

[Caseh]

nothing wrong with what i said, it is a simple technique, which was constant in my secondary school, and it works perfectly as it is exactly the type of way that every single military training works..

few teachers as soon as they walk in everybody is as silent as ann frank when the nazi's walked in

your suppose to hate the teachers, almost everyone does, so did i, untill i grew up

I always worked A LOT harder for the teachers I didn't hate. And from what I could see, so did everyone else.

I'm sorry but respect is an adult / adult thing, it doesn't work with adults and children. There are certain positions in society that command respect, teachers are one, policemen are another, clergy etc.

Remember, children should be seen and not heard.

I'm sorry, but that is simply a ridiculous stance to take. If this is how all adults/teachers think, maybe they are just as much of a problem as the students? (In some cases, I'm not saying all teachers are bad.) The society gives children a lot more freedom, and "authority", yet try and take it away in schools?

You know, I was never late at school, always did all my homework and course-work on-time, and wasn't disruptive in anyway. I came to school and got on with my work. To then be punished, for the act of the minority, but if we have a go at that person/people about what they have done, we also get done for confronting them?

 

[LordSplodge]

Respect isn't an adult/adult thing. It needs to start with children and those that are in positions of respect should be granted it automatically but it is then up to them to continue to act in such a way as to deserve it. If a teacher acts in an arbitary way punishing the entire class for the actions of one then they lose respect. Also I am not sure if I could respect someone whose prime method of motivation was fear of punishment.




Are you are parent? It would be horrible if I treated my daughter in that fashion. I would rather not have the repressed victorian attitudes prevelant again thanks.

I was taught (by both my family and school) that you automatically respect your elders and you have to earn their respect. Respect is not an automatic right.

The Victorians had a lot right when it comes to raising children (and a hell of a lot wrong) and correct discipline and respect was one of them.

Just like teachers there are too many parents trying (or wanting) to be equals or pals with the children in their care. That's not what they are there for. This doesn't mean a parent cannot show love (and a teacher show care) for the children.

Iron fist in a silk glove. Worked for me when I was raised and it has worked for my child. He is technically an adult now (though not mentally! ) and he has a laugh and a joke with me but if I put the steel in my voice and say jump he says "How high?" and that's the way it should be.

 

[Jeff Lynne]

You know, I was never late at school, always did all my homework and course-work on-time, and wasn't disruptive in anyway. I came to school and got on with my work. To then be punished, for the act of the minority, but if we have a go at that person/people about what they have done, we also get done for confronting them?

The part of your quote that I've put in bold text is what is expected though. I suspect the reason for your group punishment was to shame the offender and make peer pressure ensure that he or she didn't do it again.

 

[Caseh]

The part of your quote that I've put in bold text is what is expected though. I suspect the reason for your group punishment was to shame the offender and make peer pressure ensure that he or she didn't do it again.

Well they failed bad, because it happened almost every lesson.

Also, I imagine there were people very close to just doing the same as the person that came in late/was disruptive, whatever... As they knew they were going to get punished anyway.
Also, at school now they go on and on about readying you for a working environment, so you should be treated as such. I have never gone into a job where the manager doesn't show you respect. And I'm pretty certain they don't dock everyone pay, when one person is late.

 

[RDM]

I was taught (by both my family and school) that you automatically respect your elders and you have to earn their respect. Respect is not an automatic right.

Youa re contradicting yourself. By saying that you should automatically respect your elders yet respect is not an automatic right. I agree that teachers have a right to respect but that respect is conditional in that they continue to act in a way that deserves it. Why should a teacher continue to have respect by dint of their position when they act in such a way that undermines it?

The Victorians had a lot right when it comes to raising children (and a hell of a lot wrong) and correct discipline and respect was one of them.

They had more wrong than right and the "Children should be seen and not heard" adage is part of what they had wrong. The casual violence towards children was also wrong.

Just like teachers there are too many parents trying (or wanting) to be equals or pals with the children in their care. That's not what they are there for. This doesn't mean a parent cannot show love (and a teacher show care) for the children.

I would consider myself a failure as a parent if my child grew up fearing me. Wouldn't you?

Iron fist in a silk glove. Worked for me when I was raised and it has worked for my child. He is technically an adult now (though not mentally! ) and he has a laugh and a joke with me but if I put the steel in my voice and say jump he says "How high?" and that's the way it should be.

I disagree, different people, different approaches. The "Iron fist" approach wouldn't work with me, far too stubborn and willing to accept a beating just to prove a point.

 

[RDM]

the method that RDM seem's to support will only have about lets say 5% of people actually doing what they were told, and thats from my school, which was actually pretty good, and was a catholic school

And what method do you think I actually support? As I haven't mentioned teaching methods at all? I just disagree with your idea that being feared is the be all and end all of life.

 

[rypt]

I'm picturing that and my interpretation is that the majority of the class would be concentrating on the cone thinking it was funny rather than concentrating on what he or she was trying to teach them.

The teacher maintained his or her dignity in the face of a puerile act to try not to make an issue of it yet you've taken it up a level by bringing it back in.

I'll guess that you can remember clearly the whole cone incident but you can't remember what you were being taught in that lesson!

This was the top maths set and we got on very well with the teacher because he was only 25ish - this means that his lessons often were a bit fun as we'd do work but also chat about random things amongst ourselves and to him - as long as the work got done he didn't mind that.
Some sort of random misbehaving always occurred, be it discussing the fact that he was "allegedly" dating one of the other teachers, having a competition to see who could score the most baskets with paper balls into the bin and so on.

 

[Missing.String]

@the people saying "oh teachers automatically deserve respect": why?

They're people. Just like me. Nothing should give them the right to make me go through my education in fear of something like corporal punishment; if the teachers are nice to me, I will respect them and actually try hard to work in their classes.

Violence and fear will only degrade society.

 

[singist]

@the people saying "oh teachers automatically deserve respect": why?

They're people. Just like me. Nothing should give them the right to make me go through my education in fear of something like corporal punishment; if the teachers are nice to me, I will respect them and actually try hard to work in their classes.

Violence and fear will only degrade society.

That's twice now that someone has said " I work hard for them because (or similar).... " YOU SHOULD WORK HARD FOR YOU AND YOUR ******* EDUCATION! not to please the teacher, though I'm sure that the teachers appreciate being in front of children who want to learn. You are at school for YOUR benefit, no one elses!

As for the 'they should show me respect' little ****s; children earn respect by being polite and nice & should not expect to be treated as adults until they can prove that they deserve it.

Parenting and home life are where it begins; instead of sending children to the electronic baby sitters (consoles, computers etc) why not spend some quality time with them and try to give them some idea of right and wrong and what respect is all about.
It appears to be a viscious circle of kids brought up by parents who have no respect for anyone etc etc ..... the attitude of not taking responsibility for their actions/position in life and or the world owes me a living/respect etc.

Yeah, I was at school in the 50s/60s .....

 

[Missing.String]

That's twice now that someone has said " I work hard for them because (or similar).... " YOU SHOULD WORK HARD FOR YOU AND YOUR ******* EDUCATION!

I was at school because I had to be, not because I wanted to. There was very little motivation for me to work hard in most subjects.

Take my maths class for example. The teacher in that, he absolutely hated me for no reason as far as I knew. He also made no effort to engage the class, said "page x question y", and told us to get on with it. Consequently, most people, including myself, did the bare minimum amount of work required in maths. However, my languages teacher actually seemed to give a damn about his students and almost made a mission of helping people to do well; he held a lot more respect and guess what? People actually liked him and did well in his lessons.

It's all well and good saying that schools purpose is to "educate" you and not for you to enjoy it but you're there for an awfully long time and most people need motivation to do stuff.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

It's all well and good saying that schools purpose is to "educate" you and not for you to enjoy it but you're there for an awfully long time and most people need motivation to do stuff.

Quite interesting but should also bloody obvious.

About 2 months ago I had to interview around 100 x 13 year old students from all around the city who wanted a place on our NHS Young Apprenticeship.
One of the questions I ask is -
What are your favourite subjects in school and why?

EVERY reply confirmed they liked a certain subject because of the teacher who taught the subject.

After the first 30 interviews I chucked in 'Which subjects do you like the least and why?' and everyone replied that they disliked the subject because of the teacher.

 

[Raumarik]

A criminal has broken the law; a teenager being slightly irritable in a classroom has not.

Imo if the teacher cannot deal with the stress and feels the need to abuse the pupils in their classroom as a way of venting, they should not be allowed to teach.

I agree with that, but there should also be more power behind a teacher than there is these days. I wouldn't have dared talk back to a teacher when I was in high school, but then again we still had good relationships with our teachers. Frankly I respected almost all of them as did a huge majority of pupils. We knew we'd be set home if we talked back, we knew our parents would be called in and none of us wanted that. Expulsion then actually meant permanent too, none of this "we'll let you back in after a fortnight" garbage. It was the ultimate humiliation to be excluded from a school.

 

[Caseh]

As for the 'they should show me respect' little ****s; children earn respect by being polite and nice & should not expect to be treated as adults until they can prove that they deserve it.

If a teacher doesn't have to earn respect, neither does anyone else.

I don't see what the big problem is, it's not hard to show someone respect. I'd hate to have some of you as my parents. Respect is something everyone (apart from the obvious, criminals, etc...) has the right to, doesn't matter who you are, or what you do. You could be 5 or 95, you both deserve the same amount of respect.

EVERY reply confirmed they liked a certain subject because of the teacher who taught the subject.

Get a teacher that is willing to have a light-hearted bit of classroom banter, and is strict-but-fair, and you get a hell of a lot more effort, and good behaviour in the class. It was no coincidence that the best GCSE results from our school came from the same 3/4 teachers, every year. And 1 of those was going on for 60, so it's nothing to do with age.

 

[Missing.String]

If a teacher doesn't have to earn respect, neither does anyone else.

I don't see what the big problem is, it's not hard to show someone respect. I'd hate to have some of you as my parents. Respect is something everyone (apart from the obvious, criminals, etc...) has the right to, doesn't matter who you are, or what you do. You could be 5 or 95, you both deserve the same amount of respect.

If this forum had the rep feature enabled...

I really want to know at what point we decided to throw equality out the window.