Krav Maga

TommyTenToes · 18 Jul 2009 at 21:16

My mate goes to the Griphouse gym in Glasgow for boxing, and they have recently started weekly Krav Maga classes. Might get myself along there to see what it's like!

meghatronic · 18 Jul 2009 at 21:41

DrDee said:
/Asks you to slow the pat down so I can demonstrate Aikido wrist lock, no slower, no slower again so I can do it!

We've been here before - and I'm not repeating myself.

I could introduce you to Aikidoka that could rip you limb from limb - but you wouldn't understand that one day had to start from the basics, i.e. set moves. Admitadly the 'initial' (I'm a loser and can't do anything) stage in Aikido takes years to get out of... 5-10 really. PLUS, Aikido suffers from the mcdojo thing quite badly. Even where I am, there is only one dojo out of 3 or 4 that I trust. So it is highly likely you went to a pansy dojo. Incidentally, I'd like to know which one

gameover · 18 Jul 2009 at 23:34

Been tempted to give it a try before, but not found anywhere local (in kent) & would feel a bit of a newb the first few times by myself. As theres nowhere local, kinda doubt i could persuade any mates to go more than 30-45mins journey just for an hour or so of it. closest is probably london, couple hrs on train really...

Sash · 19 Jul 2009 at 06:08

My girlfriend wants to try it! (5foot 1. 7 stone. Lol)

Angilion · 19 Jul 2009 at 06:35

Sash said:
My girlfriend wants to try it! (5foot 1. 7 stone. Lol)

Not entirely lol - what attacker would expect her to fight back? If she could do something painful enough quickly enough, it could gain her a chance to run away.

DrDee · 19 Jul 2009 at 06:48

meghatronic said:
We've been here before - and I'm not repeating myself.

I could introduce you to Aikidoka that could rip you limb from limb - but you wouldn't understand that one day had to start from the basics, i.e. set moves. Admitadly the 'initial' (I'm a loser and can't do anything) stage in Aikido takes years to get out of... 5-10 really. PLUS, Aikido suffers from the mcdojo thing quite badly. Even where I am, there is only one dojo out of 3 or 4 that I trust. So it is highly likely you went to a pansy dojo. Incidentally, I'd like to know which one

One in Clifton in Bristol, the other at UWE university, both were beyond terrible. Aikido is a McMartialart never mind the McDojo's that teach it imo. The idea that the students would stand up to an attacker who is much more physically imposing than them only to try the techniques I saw displayed was laughable and frankly dangerous. This was no where near the case with Krav Maga.

You say it can take 5-10 years to be competent to defend yourself competently with Aikido, well I firmly believe that within 15 lessons Sash's 5 foot 7 stone GF would become a fairly devastating machine in comparison with Krav Maga

Sash · 19 Jul 2009 at 07:49

Angilion said:
Not entirely lol - what attacker would expect her to fight back? If she could do something painful enough quickly enough, it could gain her a chance to run away.

I meant that as soon as she saw some videos she was like 'Wow Cool I wanna try that!' so once she manages to get a full time non studenty type job we will be going.

DrDee said:
One in Clifton in Bristol, the other at UWE university, both were beyond terrible. Aikido is a McMartialart never mind the McDojo's that teach it imo. The idea that the students would stand up to an attacker who is much more physically imposing than them only to try the techniques I saw displayed was laughable and frankly dangerous. This was no where near the case with Krav Maga.

You say it can take 5-10 years to be competent to defend yourself competently with Aikido, well I firmly believe that within 15 lessons Sash's 5 foot 7 stone GF would become a fairly devastating machine in comparison with Krav Maga

Yeah we will soon see I like to tease her about her height though so I may end up regretting taking her when she decides to elbow my face in while simultaneously kneeing me in the chimichangas.

I can see how akido could be useful but I think it would need to get supplemented by something. Either way this thread is about KM so could the akido chat not happen? Lol

AHarvey · 19 Jul 2009 at 08:08

Dolph said:
No, it isn't. If you are being taught that at a 'Krav Maga' class, you are not being taught Krav Maga, but some alternative program incorporating some moves from Krav Maga.

You cannot seperate the philosophical and mental aspects of a martial art from the physical.

If you read my second post I explained that in today's world you can't fully use KM, you need self restraint because other wise you are going to end up in jail for assault or murder. I wasn't stating that KM teaches you those things but pointing out that you need self restraint to stay out of jail.

Being able to break someones neck, taking their gun of them and shooting them etc doesn't mean that you can do it.

DrDee · 19 Jul 2009 at 08:57

AHarvey said:
If you read my second post I explained that in today's world you can't fully use KM, you need self restraint because other wise you are going to end up in jail for assault or murder. I wasn't stating that KM teaches you those things but pointing out that you need self restraint to stay out of jail.

Being able to break someones neck, taking their gun of them and shooting them etc doesn't mean that you can do it.

You can legally defend yourself to the point of killing someone in this country, it has been this way for a long long long time.

meghatronic · 19 Jul 2009 at 09:03

DrDee said:
You can legally defend yourself to the point of killing someone in this country, it has been this way for a long long long time.

Unfortunately, it isn't as cut and dry as that.

Sash said:
Yeah we will soon see I like to tease her about her height though so I may end up regretting taking her when she decides to elbow my face in while simultaneously kneeing me in the chimichangas.
I can see how akido could be useful but I think it would need to get supplemented by something. Either way this thread is about KM so could the akido chat not happen? Lol

It's always fun when you train with someone - plus you can practice out of class that way.

And re: thread sidetrack, this is GD....... (to the this is Sparta).

Dolph · 19 Jul 2009 at 09:21

DrDee said:
You can legally defend yourself to the point of killing someone in this country, it has been this way for a long long long time.

Only if the response you give is real. Someone who has undergone full Krav Maga training (as opposed to watered down civilian variants) is taught to react instinctively to a threat with force that would be classified as excessive in the vast majority of cases in the UK.

Krav Maga as designed Imi Lichtenfeld is not about reasonable or proportional response, it is about instinctive reaction with maximum force and minimum risk.

Paul11 · 19 Jul 2009 at 09:23

the use of force in most Kravmaga situations would be to defend yourself and then run away.

you would not stay and beat someone to death

if someone attacks you with a knife and you use a kravmaga technique punching at their windpipe to disable them and then run away, i do not think you find yourself in any trouble with the law.

Dolph · 19 Jul 2009 at 09:28

Paul11 said:
the use of force in most Kravmaga situations would be to defend yourself and then run away.

you would not stay and beat someone to death

if someone attacks you with a knife and you use a kravmaga technique punching at their windpipe to disable them and then run away, i do not think you find yourself in any trouble with the law.

It would depend very much on the jury, but a good prosecutor would spin it that you knew less risky or aggressive techniques and you could have used them rather than striking a danger zone where the risk of death or serious injury is much higher.

What constitutes reasonable force for someone trained to fight is even more complicated than what qualifies for someone with no training at all. Krav Maga (and other arts that focus on hard techniques) suffer from this problem more than others, because there response is more likely to be considered disproportionate.

meghatronic · 19 Jul 2009 at 09:28

Paul11 said:
the use of force in most Kravmaga situations would be to defend yourself and then run away.

you would not stay and beat someone to death

if someone attacks you with a knife and you use a kravmaga technique punching at their windpipe to disable them and then run away, i do not think you find yourself in any trouble with the law.

The Krav Maga I've seen is combos - lots of very fast combos. They NEED to 100% ensure the opponent isn't getting up again, it is an instinct. The guys I've seen wouldn't just throw a punch to the windpipe. So it is up the jury to decide if it is proportional force.

Now, there you get screwed is when the prosecutor/jury/judge learn you are a proficient martial artist. Why did you smash his windpipe and break his collar bone and dislocate his shoulder when you could've pinned him? Why? As you're violent. And dangerous.

To anyone that's done Krav - is this typical?

DrDee?

theleg · 19 Jul 2009 at 09:34

DrDee said:
You can legally defend yourself to the point of killing someone in this country, it has been this way for a long long long time.

as long as the force is seen as reasonable...you cant kill someone if they push you and expect not to go to prison.

Angilion · 19 Jul 2009 at 09:43

DrDee said:
You can legally defend yourself to the point of killing someone in this country, it has been this way for a long long long time.

You can legally use reasonable force to defend yourself (or someone else) and/or to stop a crime in progress. The key word is 'reasonable'. That can, in extreme circumstances, include killing someone, but it has to be reasonable force. Martial arts training may well reduce the amount of injury you can legally do, on the basis that it reduces the amount of threat the attacker poses to you.

Paul11 · 19 Jul 2009 at 09:59

meghatronic said:
The Krav Maga I've seen is combos - lots of very fast combos. They NEED to 100% ensure the opponent isn't getting up again, it is an instinct. The guys I've seen wouldn't just throw a punch to the windpipe. So it is up the jury to decide if it is proportional force.

To anyone that's done Krav - is this typical?

DrDee?

i kind of agree. but an attack to the windpipe would be part of your combo, followed by a take down. after which time you would run (instead of continuing to attack your opponent)

that video is very much kravmaga

and if i was being attacked my a knife, i woudlnt be thinking about what would be justified or not in a court room, i would be thinking about saving my life and deal with any legality afterwards

better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6

eXor · 19 Jul 2009 at 10:07

I should try this. Maybe, just maybe, I can finally put down my keyboard.

meghatronic · 19 Jul 2009 at 10:14

Paul11 said:
that video is very much kravmaga

better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6

Thanks for confirming - as that video is very similar to the Aikido we do, plus a bit of boxing.

And I like your closing sentence!

Paul11 · 19 Jul 2009 at 10:20

meghatronic said:
Thanks for confirming - as that video is very similar to the Aikido we do, plus a bit of boxing.
!

krav maga takes bits from a lot of other techniques so there are many similarities (sp) to some other sytles

and all this talk of getting in to trouble with the law if you use km techniques in real life is a bit silly...

If you can run, then you run. If you need to defend yourself, then you do.