RAF Halve Eurofighter Order
- Thread starter Flukester
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How awesome would that have been. Can you imagine the looks on the Russians faces
take it from an aeronautical engineer...
Is the Typhoon outdated...no, its the 2nd best air-to-air fighter in the world after the F22. Do we need 232 of them...no, in my opinion we can make do with 180. what people dont understand is the costs for the projected service life of the aircraft. If we have 100 aircraft under relative heavy duty workloads total costs over the life of the aircraft would be higher than having say 200 aircraft rotated around so each aircraft has a relatively light duty. Military engines have to be replaced every 1000-2000 hrs, so you can see how running costs can increase, not to mention increased maintenance due to airframe loading.
Is the Typhoon outdated...no, its the 2nd best air-to-air fighter in the world after the F22. Do we need 232 of them...no, in my opinion we can make do with 180. what people dont understand is the costs for the projected service life of the aircraft. If we have 100 aircraft under relative heavy duty workloads total costs over the life of the aircraft would be higher than having say 200 aircraft rotated around so each aircraft has a relatively light duty. Military engines have to be replaced every 1000-2000 hrs, so you can see how running costs can increase, not to mention increased maintenance due to airframe loading.
Associate
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Er wrong korea war
also Last credited RAF aircraft kill GWI (Antonov v Tornado GR1 or Buccaneer v Mig 29)
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Man of Honour
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Er wrong korea war
also Last credited RAF aircraft kill GWI (Antonov v Tornado GR1 or Buccaneer v Mig 29)
A buccaneer took on a MiG 29 ?
Man of Honour
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A very interesting post.
1000-2000 hours is not a lot when you think about it and you can't just pop into Charlie Brown's autoparts for a Typhoon engine.
As a aero engineer can you tell me one thing I have wondered about ?
What is the difference between an aircraft having two tail fins and one like the F-14 for two and the Typhoon for one ?
Plenty of other european nations (scandanavias etc.) get by without a massive standing army, airforce and navy and manage to do just fine.
The world is a relatively more stable state than at any point in the past, capitalism and globalisation have led to that. While there will always be war-mongers around the real superpowers can no longer afford to go to war, it would cost to much and as all the superpowers care about is money they can't afford to go to war with their trade partners.
Future conflict will all be based upon small groups of disperate rebels who don't like the superpowers run the war. These people will not need jetfighters and aircraft carriers to defeat them, these tools will even be ineffective against them.
This is the past, its not WW1, WW2 or the coldwar. There aren't going to be any landgrab wars in europe anymore. There are troubles around the war but they are not being conducted by highly technological and armed groups.
This is the 21st century. a lot of people hate globalisation and capatilism but the one thing it does give us a reason not to fight each other (there are other reasons to of course, but money trumps all).
Every £ or $ the UK spends on 21st jetfighters, nuclear subs and aircraft carriers is money that could be better spent on the population providing education, healthcare and social benefits that would make Britian into a race of 21st century citizens rather than a race of 19th century citizens with a 21st century arsenel.........
The world is a relatively more stable state than at any point in the past, capitalism and globalisation have led to that. While there will always be war-mongers around the real superpowers can no longer afford to go to war, it would cost to much and as all the superpowers care about is money they can't afford to go to war with their trade partners.
Future conflict will all be based upon small groups of disperate rebels who don't like the superpowers run the war. These people will not need jetfighters and aircraft carriers to defeat them, these tools will even be ineffective against them.
This is the past, its not WW1, WW2 or the coldwar. There aren't going to be any landgrab wars in europe anymore. There are troubles around the war but they are not being conducted by highly technological and armed groups.
This is the 21st century. a lot of people hate globalisation and capatilism but the one thing it does give us a reason not to fight each other (there are other reasons to of course, but money trumps all).
Every £ or $ the UK spends on 21st jetfighters, nuclear subs and aircraft carriers is money that could be better spent on the population providing education, healthcare and social benefits that would make Britian into a race of 21st century citizens rather than a race of 19th century citizens with a 21st century arsenel.........
Good, with the economy as it is the last thing we need to be doing is spending tons of money on uneeded military equipment. Nurses would be a much better investment.
The world is relatively more stable than it has been for a long time... but don't be lulled into a false sense of security... you can overlook human nature if you like - but at heart humans are still the same greedy inconsiderate race they were 200+ years ago... its a matter of when not if...
Theres a lot of sense in the quote "if you want peace first make ready for war", we do need to be smart with the budget we have and concentrate on small, effective fighting forces but we don't need to weaken our armed forces.
Theres a lot of sense in the quote "if you want peace first make ready for war", we do need to be smart with the budget we have and concentrate on small, effective fighting forces but we don't need to weaken our armed forces.
Our nuclear arsenal means we're prepared for war. at least until someone make s a missile defence program then we're back to a cold war style race.
Er wrong korea war
also Last credited RAF aircraft kill GWI (Antonov v Tornado GR1 or Buccaneer v Mig 29)
Have you got a link to that i would like to read about it?
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Currently, fighter interceptor, is done by the Harrier (subsonic) and the Tornado F3 (really a bomber).
We need the Typhoon, it can do the air to air role that the Lightning II can't. It can also play fighter escort for the Lightning.
Now we just lack a modern heavy bomber, which the Lightning is not.
We need the Typhoon, it can do the air to air role that the Lightning II can't. It can also play fighter escort for the Lightning.
Now we just lack a modern heavy bomber, which the Lightning is not.
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Associate
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Tornado F3 is a fighter not a bomber you mean the GR4
Soldato
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The F3 is a bomber in a fighter suit. Not terrific for the job.
Ah! The mainstream press once again making a mess of reporting on defence. They got a quote that the Typhoon order was being halved so they take the original order number and half it but that isn’t the case at all.
The Typhoon (like most modern fighters) is delivered in different versions, called tranches, with each tranche having more capability that the last. Earlier tranches can be retro fitted to bring them up to the later spec but depending on use this may not happen.
They are halving the order of the Tranche 3 version of the Typhoon not the entire order (Tranche 1 already delivered, Tranche 2 being built at the moment).
This means the 80 Tranche 3 jets we were ordering and now down to 40.
We are selling 24 of our ordered Tranche 2 Typhoons to the Saudis. These are the ones currently coming off the production line. It’s also expected that the MOD will attempt to sell some of the older Tranche jets to other countries.
So, how many Typhoons are we getting? Hard to say exactly but a figure around 160 to 180 seems to be the popular bet.
Whatever the figure is, you need to remember is that all of them won't be available at once. There will be some that will be under going maintenance or upgrade. These are complex bits of kit and like all aircraft they need deep maintenance that will take them out of service for weeks.
You also need to factor in aircraft used to train pilots, evaluate new kit and loses. We’ve already lost one Typhoon and once the production line shuts we won’t be getting anymore so we need to make sure we have enough to last the 25-30 years they are planned to be in service for.
For the number of Typhoons we have on order it works out to roughly 5 squadrons. This will break down to something like this….
75 active (usable) front line jets
20 for training
4 for evaluation of new kit
4 for the Falklands
7 spares
62 in maintenance or held for spares / replacements
So, on a good day (assuming everything is working correctly and non are overseas) we would be able to put 106 aircraft up. Although with the tranche system not all those aircraft will be fully capable, especially the aircraft used for training.
In the grand scheme of things that isn’t many
These jets will be in service for 25 to 30 years. You can't predict what we will face in 30 years time. Look at the cold war, at the time no one predicted the wall would come down. In fact, statistically you should plan for the exact oppose to the threat you face at the time of planning.
Even if you are correct and the future is fighting terrorist then you will still need fast jets to provide close air support, reconnaissance and top cover. You also need to consider that the terrorist will also adapt and some are already taking to the air. The Tamil Tigers made a number of successful attacks from the air using light aircraft.
The Typhoon (like most modern fighters) is delivered in different versions, called tranches, with each tranche having more capability that the last. Earlier tranches can be retro fitted to bring them up to the later spec but depending on use this may not happen.
They are halving the order of the Tranche 3 version of the Typhoon not the entire order (Tranche 1 already delivered, Tranche 2 being built at the moment).
This means the 80 Tranche 3 jets we were ordering and now down to 40.
We are selling 24 of our ordered Tranche 2 Typhoons to the Saudis. These are the ones currently coming off the production line. It’s also expected that the MOD will attempt to sell some of the older Tranche jets to other countries.
So, how many Typhoons are we getting? Hard to say exactly but a figure around 160 to 180 seems to be the popular bet.
Whatever the figure is, you need to remember is that all of them won't be available at once. There will be some that will be under going maintenance or upgrade. These are complex bits of kit and like all aircraft they need deep maintenance that will take them out of service for weeks.
You also need to factor in aircraft used to train pilots, evaluate new kit and loses. We’ve already lost one Typhoon and once the production line shuts we won’t be getting anymore so we need to make sure we have enough to last the 25-30 years they are planned to be in service for.
For the number of Typhoons we have on order it works out to roughly 5 squadrons. This will break down to something like this….
75 active (usable) front line jets
20 for training
4 for evaluation of new kit
4 for the Falklands
7 spares
62 in maintenance or held for spares / replacements
So, on a good day (assuming everything is working correctly and non are overseas) we would be able to put 106 aircraft up. Although with the tranche system not all those aircraft will be fully capable, especially the aircraft used for training.
In the grand scheme of things that isn’t many
These jets will be in service for 25 to 30 years. You can't predict what we will face in 30 years time. Look at the cold war, at the time no one predicted the wall would come down. In fact, statistically you should plan for the exact oppose to the threat you face at the time of planning.
Even if you are correct and the future is fighting terrorist then you will still need fast jets to provide close air support, reconnaissance and top cover. You also need to consider that the terrorist will also adapt and some are already taking to the air. The Tamil Tigers made a number of successful attacks from the air using light aircraft.
I suspect that many people would prefer that the NHS makes better use of the money it already has, given its budget is already three times the defence budget. Perhaps since it is the worlds fourth largest employer it can find a few thousand extra nurses from within its army of administrators.