2 SSD's 64gb in Raid 0 or 1 128Gb as boot/OS drive

grumpybeard

grumpybeard

grumpybeard

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Hey folks,

Got my eyes on those Crucial M225 SSD's, when they eventually come back into stock!

Never set up a raid array, but cant decide on getting 2 64Gb drives and putting into Raid 0, or just buying the 1 128Gb, hmm? From a price point theres only a few pounds in it? Advice?

Regards raid setup, I'll be using on clean install of W7 from Asus Rampage II board - I take it I go into raid options from bootup, link the 2 drives as raid array, and the W7 install should do the rest setting page sizes etc?

Many thanks in advance!
 
I've been reading up on the same subject recently with a view to doing the same.

What I've discovered is as follows:

1) Windows 7 has native TRIM support which apparently ensures that SSDs perform consistently well rather than needing a third-party "garbage collection" program to run periodically

2) ICHxR controllers (not sure about others) can have serious issues running in RAID mode with SSD drives connected. Consensus seems to be that they should be used with it running in AHCI mode (so no RAID0). I'd be interested to hear direct experience of this from others who have successfully implemented ICHxR + SSD RAID0 systems.

One thing I am slightly confused about as far as TRIM goes, if two drives are in RAID0 configuration then as far as WIndows 7 is concerned it's just one physical drive. Won't whatever it tries to do in terms of optimisation therefore not work correctly because of the striping?
 
grumpybeard said:
Hey folks,

Got my eyes on those Crucial M225 SSD's, when they eventually come back into stock!

Never set up a raid array, but cant decide on getting 2 64Gb drives and putting into Raid 0, or just buying the 1 128Gb, hmm? From a price point theres only a few pounds in it? Advice?

Regards raid setup, I'll be using on clean install of W7 from Asus Rampage II board - I take it I go into raid options from bootup, link the 2 drives as raid array, and the W7 install should do the rest setting page sizes etc?

Many thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I went for a single 256gb M225 instead of 2x128's. Main reason was it was a bit cheaper and also that current plans for trim won't work on these drives in a raid array. A firmware upgrade is promised by Crucial that will enable trim in Win7.

Win7 setup ensures that alignment is correct for SSDs, e.g. offset and cluster sizes. The ICHxR controllers see the SSDs as a normal drive. You would set up a raid array in the same way as a mechanical disk. I'm not sure if W7 would optimise offset and cluster size for an SSD in RAID so this may need to be done manually before setup. Mine is on an ICH9R but not part of an array.

Durzel said:
I've been reading up on the same subject recently with a view to doing the same.

2) ICHxR controllers (not sure about others) can have serious issues running in RAID mode with SSD drives connected. Consensus seems to be that they should be used with it running in AHCI mode (so no RAID0). I'd be interested to hear direct experience of this from others who have successfully implemented ICHxR + SSD RAID0 systems.
Click to expand...

I'm running on ICH9R because I still have 2 other arrays I need access to. No issues to report whatsoever. Performance seems on par with expectations. The only downside is that the Wiper (manual trim) program does not work or works extremely slowly when you have the iaStor.sys (ICHxR drivers installed).

One thing I am slightly confused about as far as TRIM goes, if two drives are in RAID0 configuration then as far as WIndows 7 is concerned it's just one physical drive. Won't whatever it tries to do in terms of optimisation therefore not work correctly because of the striping?
Click to expand...

Correct. So it's individual drives and let Windows 7 manage the trim, or run a RAID0 and either manage it manually (not sure if that will be possible) or not at all. TBH I'm likely to head down the RAID0 route in the future and live without trim.
 
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Durzel said:
2) ICHxR controllers (not sure about others) can have serious issues running in RAID mode with SSD drives connected.
Click to expand...

Says who ? I am running raid 0 intel ssds on ich10r controller with no issues.

Durzel said:
Consensus seems to be that they should be used with it running in AHCI mode (so no RAID0).
Click to expand...

I think you are getting confused. With SSD you want to run AHCI drivers not IDE ones to get things like NCQ support. In bios both the settings of raid and ICHR will use ICHR drivers. You seem to think that if you set bios to raid you will not be using ICHR drivers - this is not correct.

Durzel said:
I'd be interested to hear direct experience of this from others who have successfully implemented ICHxR + SSD RAID0 systems.
Click to expand...

My experiences are in the latter part of this thread.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18039748

Durzel said:
One thing I am slightly confused about as far as TRIM goes, if two drives are in RAID0 configuration then as far as WIndows 7 is concerned it's just one physical drive. Won't whatever it tries to do in terms of optimisation therefore not work correctly because of the striping?
Click to expand...

For TRIM to work it needs to be supported in all the elements in the chain. For single drives that means in the OS and the drive firmware. For raid it means in the raid controller as well. Currently intel have not announced trim support on the ICHxR controllers but I will be surprised if they do not in due course.

At the moment I have no trim support in the ICHR controlled siftware but then neither do I have it in the Intale drive firmeware or in my current OS (vista) so not having it in the controller is less of an issue. It may become an issue when the drive firmware with trim support is released and windows 7 is released but as of now its kind of irrelevant. Even without trim support the intel drives do a pretty good job anyway as far as housekeeping goes.
 
fornowagain said:
RIAD controllers like the Adaptec 5 series will support TRIM with an upcoming firmware upgrade.
Click to expand...

Basically why TRIM does not work on RAID at the moment is because the actual RAID controller does not support it (it also needs to be supported in all the elements in the chain), it would appear the the manufacturer's will be releasing firmware upgrades to rectify this, now, as regards how this would be implemented (if it can be done) with the Intel ICH10R (a software RAID implementation) is another matter, but maybe by a BIOS update by the mobo manufacturer + a new drivers release by Intel. I would think ICH11R will support it from the word go...
 
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Durzel said:
2) ICHxR controllers (not sure about others) can have serious issues running in RAID mode with SSD drives connected. Consensus seems to be that they should be used with it running in AHCI mode (so no RAID0). I'd be interested to hear direct experience of this from others who have successfully implemented ICHxR + SSD RAID0 systems.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you've been reading your SSD information from but RAID SSD on ICH 8, 9 and 10 are just fine. Pick any benchmark thread over at OCZ's dedicated SSD subforum and you will see at least half a dozen people running RAID on these chipsets.

I myself have been running RAID0 with 2 x 64Gb SSD on ICH10R since April with no problems.
 
Thanks so much for the replies guys, very informative.

Very interesting benchies on your other link Erolz, looking good, and that too an educational read.

My asus board uses the ICH10R controller, I guess on initial installation I drop into Bios Raid menu and ensure the ICH10R drivers are being used, and set the raid as primary boot, save/exit and W7 install will do the rest.

I'll figure out and read up on TRIM/Wiper later!

Cheers!
 
[timko];14689376 said:
I'm not sure where you've been reading your SSD information from but RAID SSD on ICH 8, 9 and 10 are just fine. Pick any benchmark thread over at OCZ's dedicated SSD subforum and you will see at least half a dozen people running RAID on these chipsets.

I myself have been running RAID0 with 2 x 64Gb SSD on ICH10R since April with no problems.
Click to expand...
I was going by a thread I saw over on XS. I'm glad to hear it's working great for you, as that's exactly the information I had requested.
 
grumpybeard said:
My asus board uses the ICH10R controller, I guess on initial installation I drop into Bios Raid menu and ensure the ICH10R drivers are being used, and set the raid as primary boot, save/exit and W7 install will do the rest.
Click to expand...

With a clean install its pretty straight forward. Connect up your drives, set raid option in bios, use cntr I to enter intel raid config, at the end of bios boot. Configure your 2 drives there as raid 0 array. Boot from your windows install DVD and install the OS.
 
This is probably another dumb questiton but I have literally zero experience of using SSDs too so all my knowledge is from reading threads...

Is the lack of TRIM in a RAID0 configuration a bad thing? If so, how bad? Are you likely to do irreperable damage or cut the lifespan dramatically from not using it? In other words could you install RAID0 SSDs in a system that doesn't support TRIM in firmware or whatever with a view to eventually moving to a motherboard/RAID card that does, without any damage?

Could you just "format" them to restore them to original condition/performance, etc?
 
It won't do any harm if it's not active, it just restores lost performance. You'll find the Intels do a good job of housekeeping already. OCZ primarily are working on hardware level garbage cleaning, which is OS independent. Its a simplification, but all any of the cleaning methods do is pre-erase blocks that have already been written too and would need erasing at a later point anyway.

http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-drives-and.aspx
http://windowsitpro.com/article/art...le.com&usg=ALkJrhi2gZNLyRjRpTtxYmTMmrJq08xhrg
 
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One thing which would tempt me to get the 128gb drive over the 64gb drive is that it's much faster as a single drive especially with IOPS.
 
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