Senator Edward Kennedy has died...

DrDee said:
I can see how, if one was inclined, one could take that quote and blow it wildly out of proportion and make it sound like he was saying something he was not.

If that is all the "he should rot in hell for helping the IRA murder people I know" crowd have, then I don't know what more else can be said because you are not worth talking to. Especially when presenting such misleading quotes.

"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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Oh please, your portraying him as a saint...
You say he helped in the peace progress, only after the ira lost all crediblity with american goverment and were on the risk of being deported back to face justice.
What about the 20 odd years of him turning up to funerals and avidlly supporting before hand. Oh but because i cant hand you the bank statements these must be false...
One forced good deed does not wash 20 years of sins away., yet you seem to think this is so? so under your ideal's, a child abuser thats save 1 child after molesting 20 other kids is ok in your books... intresting.



Your also forgetting how he saved his career at the cost of a young girls live, Which calls into question how you can raise such a charecter so high in your estem knowing this.

Please face reality he was nothing compared to his brothers from whence he got his fame.
He was a charged twice with sexual harrasment and was a murderer. That used his connections to get away with killing a young girl. Where's the justice for her family?Just for that fact alone he deserves a fate far worse tha hell, but you seem to be glossing over this...
He had to be forced to do the right thing at every point in his career by a more powerfull companion.


but i surpoose you'll qoute phase that say basicially if you dont like forced rule you can leave and then claim that he was unbaised and a live send to the people of northern ireland.

DrDee said:
Not only have you made yourself look very silly, but you are useing the classic anti peace talking point of quoting the idea of a United Ireland completely out of context.
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How have i made my self silly, in his quote hes saying irealnd should be whole against peoples votes and those that dont like should leave, isn't that the same as saying britian should be a dictatorship, if the small majority dont like it they show disapear?

Where do you draw the line on who has the right ot stay and who hasn't, when i was touring their i meet a whole street of pro british rule and have been living in that street and neighbouring area for generation's. what give people like him the right to tell people to leave their land and homes?
their is no way of discharging anti home rule supporters without breeching human rights.

Also everyone that has a different view point to you is a fool and stupid? So anyone with different experiance or inforamtion is always wrong, by your own defination.
 
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To be fair to Abraxaz1, there's at least a case to argue. It's fairly well known (and as I vaguely recall widely reported at the time) that a lot of IRA funding came via the American Irish community. Whether Sen. Kennedy had any direct involvement in that, I just don't know. Whether he tried to stop it, I don't know either.
 
I didn't see any billion-year-old Liverpudlians when I was there a few weeks back. Besides, I don't think Liverpool existed back then. :p

PS - It's being nit-picky and very off-topic but the examples aren't equivalent. The problem is the semantics. 'Some of these people ...' implies a specific subset, which is a non sequitur - there's no such thing as a 400-year-old person.
 
Good riddance - He was a ******.


On July 18 1969, he was at a party on the small Massachusetts island of Chappaquiddick with a group, including six women known as the boiler room girls, who had worked in his brother Robert's presidential campaign.

Kennedy left the party, supposedly to drive his brother's former secretary, Mary Jo Kopechne, to catch the last ferry back to the mainland but, instead, the car turned onto a side road and crashed off a bridge into a tidal creek.

Kennedy pulled himself from the upturned car and, after swimming across a narrow creek, returned to his hotel without reporting the accident.

It was the following morning before local fishermen found the sunken car and discovered the body of Mary Jo Kopechne still inside.

Evidence given at the subsequent inquest suggested that she had probably remained alive in an air pocket for several hours and might well have been saved had the alarm been raised at the time.

Kennedy pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, claiming that he had been in shock, and was given a two-month suspended jail sentence.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1517548.stm

I wonder if he will now meet Mary Jo Kopechne and apologize?
 
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Berserker said:
I didn't see any billion-year-old Liverpudlians when I was there a few weeks back. Besides, I don't think Liverpool existed back then. :p

PS - It's being nit-picky and very off-topic but the examples aren't equivalent. The problem is the semantics. 'Some of these people ...' implies a specific subset, which is a non sequitur - there's no such thing as a 400-year-old person.
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Gerard is just being ultra pedantic, we all know what was meant.
 
dirtydog said:
I'm not being feted by the media,
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Why would you be? Have you achieved great things we don't know about? Btw, I don't think he was praised by the media for drink-driving and fleeing the scene of the crime.

I'm not being given honorary knighthoods, I wasn't responsible for a young woman's death and I didn't try to wriggle out of facing the music.
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At a guess because you were pulled over and breathalysed, right?

But otherwise, excellent point ;)
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Thanks.
 
Berserker said:
Whether Sen. Kennedy had any direct involvement in that, I just don't know.
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He didn't

Whether he tried to stop it, I don't know either.
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He did and regularly condemned it. Read my posts earlier in the thread.

There is no case to argue. No-one can quote anything said by Kennedy proving he supported the IRA because he never said anything of the sort, unless you are the Daily Mail reading type who believes that all Irish nationalists are Republicans and interpret any sentiment supporting a united Ireland as 'Kill all Protestants! Hang Thatcher! Rarghghghghghg!!!'
 
dirtydog said:
Depending on what word games you want to engage in, you could say Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness never advocated terrorism and always condemned it.
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You really couldn't. Sinn Fein regularly defended the IRA's actions. Kennedy never did.

Judging people by what they say and do is not a word game. Kennedy was a firm supporter of John Hume and only dealt with SF as a way to encourage a ceasefire. He would never have done it if Hume hadn't asked him to.
 
dirtydog said:
I'm not being feted by the media, I'm not being given honorary knighthoods, I wasn't responsible for a young woman's death and I didn't try to wriggle out of facing the music. But otherwise, excellent point ;)
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So Brenda won’t be putting her sword on your shoulder in the New Years Honours List?
 
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