Your kidding?
That e34 would have sold easily had the owner taken the time & effort to advertise it, I'd happily have an e34 myself except it appears the decent ones are getting scrapped!
Edit: Fox makes the point a lot better than I.
Scrappage Scam Extended
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Your kidding?
That e34 would have sold easily had the owner taken the time & effort to advertise it, I'd happily have an e34 myself except it appears the decent ones are getting scrapped!
Edit: Fox makes the point a lot better than I.
Your kidding?
That e34 would have sold easily had the owner taken the time & effort to advertise it, I'd happily have an e34 myself except it appears the decent ones are getting scrapped!
Edit: Fox makes the point a lot better than I.
But at the end of the day it comes down to the owner of the e34 - if he could get more using the scrappage scheme, there is no compelling reason to sell it privately for less.
It is a shame, imo, that the car will either be crushed or end up in scrapyard.
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As far as the market goes, that e34, solid and perfect as it might have been in the cold light is still an e34, the best part of 20 years old or more, worth five hundred quid and averages 28 to the gallon on a good day. It would fall to the realms of an enthusiast to continue to keep it alive as in servicing terms to a non enthusiast it would be quite uneconomic to maintain compared to todays boxes. The scrap scheme therefore works for unemotional people who have no particular interest in what dynamics are.
I think a great irony is that folk who would scrap a good 525i e34 for a box are the very one's who would know perfectly the price of everything (including thier repayments schedule) and the value of nothing. Sorry for the age old phrase, but it's true here. Even a 540 in similar order is worth little more and one would either be enthusiastic about running a 540 or scrapping it along with societies other now inefficient and effectively outlawed junk against a fat car loan. It is a shame to me.
I think a great irony is that folk who would scrap a good 525i e34 for a box are the very one's who would know perfectly the price of everything (including thier repayments schedule) and the value of nothing. Sorry for the age old phrase, but it's true here. Even a 540 in similar order is worth little more and one would either be enthusiastic about running a 540 or scrapping it along with societies other now inefficient and effectively outlawed junk against a fat car loan. It is a shame to me.
Your kidding?
That e34 would have sold easily had the owner taken the time & effort to advertise it, I'd happily have an e34 myself except it appears the decent ones are getting scrapped!
Edit: Fox makes the point a lot better than I.
It would have sold sure, but nowhere near what he got for it on scrappage.
No E30 M3 owner on this planet would scrap their car.
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That is certainly a point of view; one which it seems for one reason or another neither the guy, a 2nd owner who had owned it for at least a year and who scrapped it or the dealer who took it in for scrappage didn't feel was worth pursuing. Perhaps they knew something that we don't?
Indeed.
What you describe as a "box" is of course simply a more efficient, safer, more reliable, more economic form of transport.
I'm really sorry to correct you but the guy who sold it did know the value of the two cars in question at the very least; by all accounts, he made a rational, unemotional decision. There may well be very compelling additional reasons of which we are not aware for his having made that decision.
However, there is little point in speculating on the significance of a single example; the scrappage scheme certainly works for some owners of older cars, for the motor trade in general and thus for the Government. To that extent it is exactly in line with Capitalism and is clearly not a scam.
Perhaps what it does illustrate is the consequences of today's enthusiasm for consumerism. It would seem to me that it would have made more sense for the Government to allow the motor trade to suffer and to have offered the displaced workers retraining as skilled mechanics in order to bring down the excessive cost of maintaining old cars. You only need to look at Cuba and India to see how some societies can eke value out of older items. The same goes for TVs, Audio systems, Computers, furniture and God alone knows what else.
The sooner we see the end of the wasteful consumer mindset the better; on that score, I am 100% in line with [TW]Fox
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And nor would they need to because it would be worth more than the scrappage. It'd be worth it for the dealer to give a better trade in offer for it and then sell it themselves.
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I do wonder how often this situation actually arises:
Customer: I would like to scrap this mint condition BMW for a Hyundai i20.
Dealer: Tell you what, have a word with Mr. X this evening and I think he will give you about £1,100 for that heap of junk. Meanwhile, I can offer you £1,100 off a Hyundai i20.
Customer: You mean that I would get a Hyundai i20 at a discount of £2,200 rather than £2,000 if I scrapped my heap of junk?
Dealer: I mean exactly that.
Customer: Fantastic, that's an even better deal than I had hoped for
Dealer: Tell you what, have a word with Mr. X this evening and I think he will give you about £1,100 for that heap of junk. Meanwhile, I can offer you £1,100 off a Hyundai i20.
Customer: You mean that I would get a Hyundai i20 at a discount of £2,200 rather than £2,000 if I scrapped my heap of junk?
Dealer: I mean exactly that.
Customer: Fantastic, that's an even better deal than I had hoped for
The Dealer who is in fact "Mr. X" gets to buy a mint BMW for a mere £1,100 and sells it on at a profit and he also gets the commission on the sale of a brand new Hyundai i20; the customer makes an unexpected additional saving of £200 and all parties are delighted - even if you can believe it, [TW]Fox
There is a wiggle out clause in hire purchase agreements which allows you to simply hand over the keys after half the sum is paid and walk away.
There is about as much interest from Hyundai dealer towards trading old Beemers with a discount on new cars as there is from Clarks to discount high heel section in exchange for well worn work men's shoes.
The best part about scrappage is the cretinism it creates. From most dealers perspective, there is no real discount. Kia Picanto never sold for £8000, bottom spec korean designed, indian made Hyundai i20 was never worth £10,000. No 1 litre Panda ever left dealers courtyard with £7500 price tag stuck to windscreen. So while people trip over themselves to sign up for those £5000, £6000 no thrills "bargains" the simple truth is - those discounts were always there to be had. Those Peroduas, Protons, Kias, Hyundais and Pandas were always there to be had, for under £6k. They were there in 2007, they were there in 2008. And no one really wanted them that much. So it's a field day for any dealership where people queue for months to get cars that never rose an eyebrow and never generated any interest because they think they get some sort of "bargain of a century".
Those dealers won't be trading in used Beemers, because today, of all days - it's all working for them - they don't have to haggle, they don't have discount those poor excuses for shopping carts with "£20 extra ashtray pack", they don't have to offer full tanks or free mats. Today people pay bribes to jump the queue for tat that never sold.
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I'm sure that you are right on the money when you say that no Hyundai Dealership would be interested in taking in an old (or even a new) BMW in part exchange for a new car.
The aspect that puzzled me was why an individual salesman (posing as Mr. X) wouldn't buy a "mint" sixteen year old BMW on his own behalf and sell it on privately at a profit whilst offering one of the huge discounts you say have always been available on an i20, thereby gaining a private profit as well as his commission.
The only reason I can think of is that sixteen year old BMWs even when in mint condition really aren't worth that much
ps - incidentally, the examples you gave of discounts in 2007 & 2008 both related to Fiats and I can entirely understand why they would be heavily discounted
ps - incidentally, the examples you gave of discounts in 2007 & 2008 both related to Fiats and I can entirely understand why they would be heavily discounted
Actually Fiat Panda is the most reliable car Fiat ever made and it sells in stupid numbers outside of UK. So much so, they make 500s in the same factory just so market doesn't turn Chroma/Bravo/Brava/(put just about any Fiat model) on them. If had a gun to my head and had to choose between Panda, Kia, Hyundai and what were those last two... Pita and Propan.. no.. Pyerdolov and Pratov... no.. got it - Perodua and Proton. And the Ssangyyyongdingdong. I would, with understandable hesitation, at last moment before trigger is squeezed, choose Panda.
But I digress - offers were there from every manufacturer - Kia for under £5k in 2007 and High And Die for under £5k in 2007. They just don't sell for more. Who would want i20 for Honda money or Cee'd for Focus money?
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Same, there is no need for perfectly good cars to be scrapped.
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I'm not at all sure which Honda you are comparing to a Hyundai i20? Perhaps the Jazz which starts at over £10,000 whereas the i20 starts at less than £9,000; so yes, I would have to agree that nobody in their right mind would pay a Honda price for an i20.
Incidentally, I have owned both a Honda and a Fiat; I loved the Honda and hated the Fiat which would have been a source of acute embarrassment to any steel manufacturer.
As you say, you digress. We do seem to be getting away from the question I asked which was:
The aspect that puzzled me was why an individual salesman (posing as Mr. X) wouldn't buy a "mint" sixteen year old BMW on his own behalf and sell it on privately at a profit whilst offering one of the huge discounts you say have always been available on an i20, thereby gaining a private profit as well as his commission.
The only reason I can think of is that sixteen year old BMWs even when in mint condition really aren't worth that much
wait, how is this a scam ?
yep is a indirect bail out for the car industry to generate sales / keep jobs and keep the economy moving...
it's all win win win... the only people worried by this would be your typical stereotype treehugging types, or, people who hate cheap new cars.. though why hate them I dont know, they get you from a to b which is all many want from a car
if anyone here seriously thinks it's a bad idea then you need to soak your head a little, your car's manufacturer is being propped up by this scheme in most likelyhood... paving the way for more r&d etc etc
yep is a indirect bail out for the car industry to generate sales / keep jobs and keep the economy moving...
it's all win win win... the only people worried by this would be your typical stereotype treehugging types, or, people who hate cheap new cars.. though why hate them I dont know, they get you from a to b which is all many want from a car
if anyone here seriously thinks it's a bad idea then you need to soak your head a little, your car's manufacturer is being propped up by this scheme in most likelyhood... paving the way for more r&d etc etc
It's a scam to fool people into thinking that there is no better deal.
i dont understand that statement... how is it scamming anyone ?
no better deal ? ...what are you talking about.
the goverment is propping up the car industry, whats wrong with that ?, sure it's all debt and tax payers money, but anything that helps kick start the economy abit is good... and lets face it, the goverment know a lot more about the economy than me, you and everyone in this thread
Buy pre-reg, save £££. People for the most part are too ignorant to get a good deal so they rely on the government to pre negotiate a £1k discount and a £1k trade in price. This is essence what is happening. You can go out and buy a pre-reg car with delivery with that sort of saving.
My god, i20 prices start at anywhere around £9k? Come on. Anything more than £6k and there is no reason to buy it at all. That kind of money in small hatchback sector buys anything from Fiesta to Polo.
I already gave you the answer - it would be most bizarre business model for the dealership if it allowed its salesmen to offer discounts on company prices just so they can run some sort of grey market green verge arrangement for their own profit after hours? If they had no business and no commission, then maybe. But the delivery queue for Hyundais are now what - 4 months long?
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