The all encompassing BNP thread - keep all crap in here.

vonhelmet said:
It's a fair point, though the sad truth is that there's no way we're going back to manufacturing in this country. No one would stand for the loss of quality goods and the increased prices.
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It's a basic economic triangle, you have to have primary industry to support everything else!
 
No1newts said:
I wouldnt object to the guy being on TV, he is just going to make even more of a clown of himself if they ask they right questions, either that or he is going to lie making himself look equally stupid.

Give eejits like Griffin a big enough stick and he will just get on with beating himself to death.
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I don't think you are right here; I suspect that Griffin will come across as reasoned, reasonable and a victim. He (and the BNP) have been waiting a very long time for this sort of exposure and they will have prepared for it very, very carefully. I believe that the BNP will get their hour in the spotlight and their membership list will grow as a result.

I think that the disappointing thing will be that the other members of the panel will be patient, polite and not particularly pointed in their questions and observations. I gather that in his youth, Jack Straw was considered a firebrand but nowadays he is a member of the establishment and staunch supporter of the status quo.


cheets64 said:
The best thing people can do on Question time is skip the race issue and talk about real world problems and just see how clueless Griffin is ...
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Agreed; force Griffin to get involved in questions that don't relate to race and he will probably come across as totally lost and irrelevant.

Kick his racist soapbox out from under his feet and he will fall flat on his face.
 
Chimerical said:
I thought we were 7th highest in the world for manufacturing?
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I would think that a more pertinent statistic with regards to this issue would be, what proportion of the jobs market in each country is in manufacturing, rather than simply how much money the manufacturing sector contributes towards GDP. And secondly how well spread around those jobs are across the country.

I expect the UK has relatively few manufacturing workers relative to our world ranking in manufacturing GDP output because much of that comes from expensive items like arms sales.
 
I'm incredibly angry and rather worried about this subject at the moment.

Did anyone see Newsnight last night?

It featured a 'typical' predominantly white town, which had suffered badly since the mines and pottery factories closed down, fair enough you can certainly sympathise with the situation the town faces.

They went to a pub and was featuring different people on there...now due to selective editing etc. I never usually pay much attention to the publics opinion but they had one guy on there who was made redundant six months ago as a plumber.

What he actually said was that there WAS work available but he wasn't WILLING to do it because the immigrants had forced prices down so far he would be working for minimum wage.

Now fair enough that he is trained for a skilled trade and you would expect a decent wage but he was happy to stand there and say to the nation that he wouldn't work for minimum wage...what incensed me so was:
1. For a start if you are so worried get out there and work - many many people work for the minimum wage.
2. If it wasn't for the current government (bad as they are) there wouldn't be a minimum wage and he wouldn't be guaranteed at least a five figure income and working tax credits.
3. If it wasn't for the current government (bad as they are) there wouldn't be the benefits system in place for him to languish and moan for six months.

Who was he going to vote for...BNP...ARRRAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHH!!! YOU ARROGANT IDIOT!!!

What also worries me is the fact that they will appear on Question Time tonight and people are so fed up with MPs at the moment due to expenses etc. that they will rubbish pretty much anything the main parties say and will be more sympathetic to the BNP as they will come across as the opposite of the rest of them. This won't wash (hopefully) with the majority of usual Question Time watchers, but what about those that don't usually watch or engage in politics? The predictions are that more people than ever will watch QT tonight...their beliefs will be reinforced and may be motivated to vote for the first time for them.

Also...the BBC were reporting from a town the other day speaking to a woman (as I said I generally ignore these 'interviews' but this one incensed me), the interviewer asked her if she would be voting Labour, she predictably said no because of the expenses scandal so he asked her if she would be voting tory and she said no she would vote BNP...he said "you won't be voting for either of the main parties then?" What happened to the Liberal Democrats??? They were totally ignored like they didn't exist...and everytime something like that is reported showing basic ignorance is just gives credence and reinforces that they are just like the others.

I dispair.
 
If mass immigration opens our job market to unfair competition, why will anyone here train as a plumber or learn any other important trade, if at the end of it they will be earning the same as a shelf stacker in Tesco?

It is why we don't allow unfettered competition with regards to import and export of goods, because exposing Western companies to the full force of competition from poor countries would decimate our industries - just as has happened with much of our manufacturing industries already.

I expect only when those supporting mass economic immigration into the UK find THEIR job priced down to the level of minimum wage due to massive competition from immigrant workers, will they pause and ask whether it is really benefitting anybody other than business and the immigrant themselves, not the country.
 
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dirtydog said:
I would think that a more pertinent statistic with regards to this issue would be, what proportion of the jobs market in each country is in manufacturing, rather than simply how much money the manufacturing sector contributes towards GDP. And secondly how well spread around those jobs are across the country.

I expect the UK has relatively few manufacturing workers relative to our world ranking in manufacturing GDP output because much of that comes from expensive items like arms sales.
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How is that a better measure? Are you arguing that we should make uncompetitive expensive products that no-one wants and subsidise the jobs (as we used to until the 80's), or that we should reduce workforce pay and benefits to comparative levels for low value manufacturing?
 
dirtydog said:
If mass immigration opens our job market to unfair competition, why will anyone here train as a plumber or learn any other important trade, if at the end of it they will be earning the same as a shelf stacker in Tesco?

It is why we don't allow unfettered competition with regards to import and export of goods, because exposing Western companies to the full force of competition from poor countries would decimate our industries - just as has happened with much of our manufacturing industries already.

I expect only when those supporting mass economic immigration into the UK find THEIR job priced down to the level of minimum wage due to massive competition from immigrant workers, will they pause and ask whether it is really benefitting anybody other than business and the immigrant themselves, not the country.
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The trouble is that we like free market global capitalism when it allows us to drive down prices by pushing work overseas, but not when the work comes here and drives down wages.

We'd have to withdraw from the rest of the world entirely to make it work. Bye bye cheap goods, and bye bye entirely to all the hi-tech stuff we're so used to from the far east.
 
vonhelmet said:
The trouble is that we like free market global capitalism when it allows us to drive down prices by pushing work overseas, but not when the work comes here and drives down wages.

We'd have to withdraw from the rest of the world entirely to make it work. Bye bye cheap goods, and bye bye entirely to all the hi-tech stuff we're so used to from the far east.
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Other developed countries give their own workforce more protection from overseas competition (immigrant workers) than the UK does though. You can offer more protection than we do without going to extremes.
 
dirtydog said:
Other developed countries give their own workforce more protection from overseas competition (immigrant workers) than the UK does though. You can offer more protection than we do without going to extremes.
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But most of those countries also have significantly higher unemployment levels than the UK... Places like France for example...
 
Dolph said:
But most of those countries also have significantly higher unemployment levels than the UK... Places like France for example...
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I was thinking of countries outside the EU like the US, Canada, Australia, as well as Asian countries like Singapore (whose prosperity increased after they left their local equivalent of the EU).

But as for France's unemployment levels, are you comparing like for like? Many of the British people who receive income support or incapacity benefit are doing so fradulently and they should be classed as unemployed, but they are not.
 
What measures do the US, Canada and Australia employ to protect the native workforce then?

Only there are apparently about 3 million illegal immigrants in California alone, the number of legal immigrants is about 10 million, compared to a total population of 36-37 million.

27% of California's population (yes, that's in America) are immigrants - it makes the levels seen in the UK seem pretty insignificant really.
 
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dirtydog said:
I was thinking of countries outside the EU like the US, Canada, Australia, as well as Asian countries like Singapore (whose prosperity increased after they left their local equivalent of the EU).

But as for France's unemployment levels, are you comparing like for like? Many of the British people who receive income support or incapacity benefit are doing so fradulently and they should be classed as unemployed, but they are not.
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I'm somewhat confused where you are going with this, you appear to have jumped wildly from the dangers of exporting industry and the needs to protect it to talking about immigration and immigrant workforces...

The two aren't really related at all.

I'm also confused as to what measures these countries take to protect native workforces. They protect the rights of working citizens, just as we do. They don't protect the rights of native people by your usual definition...
 
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I have no problem with the BNP on question time tonight. Time and time again we are told how stupid, racist and disgusting the BNP members are and as a party as a whole.

We are told the public has to be shielded from the views of the BNP, well this is quite honestly so condescending, MPs are suggesting the British public don't have the intelligence to judge the BNP for themselves! If the main political parties are happy to take the votes of the general public then who the hell are they to say who does and doesn't have a right to be represented?
 
I am disgusted by the article in the Inde today (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-you-watch-question-time-tonight-1806874.html). Even if they are true - where are the exposés on Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, Green party etc? It seems BNP-bashing is popular as they're racist. Labour are sexist (against men) and racist (against whites) by some measures. So....?

I'm also disgusted democratically elected MEPs are being blocked from entering Parliament.

Rich_L said:
What measures do the US, Canada and Australia employ to protect the native workforce then?
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I tell you what - you try and emigrate to the one of those countries with a work permit without having £10,000s in the bank or a pre-existing job lined up.
 
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I dont really have a problem with them being on question time, infact I will watch just to see the reactions, the main point I think is not to allow them into power I mean winning two seats is more then enough and that embarrasses me as it is
 
meghatronic said:
I am disgusted by the article in the Inde today (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-you-watch-question-time-tonight-1806874.html). Even if they are true - where are the exposés on Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, Green party etc? It seems BNP-bashing is popular as they're racist. Labour are sexist (against men) and racist (against whites) by some measures. So....?
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Damn the paper for highlighting criminal convictions of the BNP leadership and making sure their constitution was public knowledge...

I tell you what - you try and emigrate to the one of those countries with a work permit without having £10,000s in the bank or a pre-existing job lined up.
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Explain how that helps native workers, rather than existing citizens, and you might have a point ;)
 
Rich_L said:
What measures do the US, Canada and Australia employ to protect the native workforce then?

Only there are apparently about 3 million illegal immigrants in California alone, the number of legal immigrants is about 10 million, compared to a total population of 36-37 million.

27% of California's population (yes, that's in America) are immigrants - it makes the levels seen in the UK seem pretty insignificant really.
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What you forget is you got california than mexico so all the mexs just run over the border then try to get to another part of the US.

It's like if france was next to us(no sea) then you get a a hell of lot more illegal immigrants here.

So you really can't compare California with the UK.
 
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