After 691 Crimes, Offender is Given Freedom and a New Home

I get around · 2 Nov 2009 at 11:58

Tefal said:
all the gold and silver they have?

and the lead on the roof.

Lead? ok, but i doubt this guy is the sort of guy to steal lead.

I was forced to go to church when I was very young, no one in the church had any money, no gold or silver, it was just some bibles, songbooks, a piano and a podium kind of thing.

Cathedrals and stuff might have some antiques worth nicking but your run of the mill church, i can't see it.

The Running Man · 2 Nov 2009 at 12:04

depends what faith.

catholic churches tend to have some gold and silver, COE probably less so.

Tefal · 2 Nov 2009 at 12:07

I get around said:
I was forced to go to church when I was very young, no one in the church had any money, no gold or silver, it was just some bibles, songbooks, a piano and a podium kind of thing.

Cathedrals and stuff might have some antiques worth nicking but your run of the mill church, i can't see it.

my run of the mill church as a big gold cross, behind the alter, few gold candle sticks, one silver chalice and few silver collection plates for special occasion.

and that's just the stuff on show, and it;s only a COE one, catholic churches should have a fair bit better loot.

Lead? ok, but i doubt this guy is the sort of guy to steal lead.

really? even pikies steal lead, if you're robbing as much as this guy you'd think you'd grab that too.

I get around · 2 Nov 2009 at 12:12

Well what I mean is whenever I've heard of guys who steal lead from roofs theres more than one of them.

And I've never seen any gold in your run of the mill church, they're more like community centres full of christians or something.

Indy500 · 2 Nov 2009 at 12:17

I get around said:
Well what I mean is whenever I've heard of guys who steal lead from roofs theres more than one of them.

And I've never seen any gold in your run of the mill church, they're more like community centres full of christians or something.

My post ( http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=15224526&postcount=37 ) alluded to as much..that he likely had accomplices that he shopped in, in return for avoiding jail.

Odin · 2 Nov 2009 at 13:05

the law protects the lawless while the normal average law abiding person gets screwed by the law

Typical :O

Merlin5 · 2 Nov 2009 at 13:21

Geffen said:
If the utimate aim is to stop crime and it cheaper to provide a house etc then put him in prison for life why not try it. Sure it not fair but it can be effective (see Northern Ireland and the terrorist groups their)

Yes, because giving someone a rent free home of their own for commiting crime is a real deterrent. I just can't imagine kids wanting to burgle someones house again after these draconian measures. Wouldn't you be fearful that if you ever stole from someone, you would have to live with your girlfriend and not pay a penny for accomodation?

Who appoints these judges? :rolleyes:

Hitman_Leon · 2 Nov 2009 at 13:26

Im thinking maybe we should do deport the criminals, afghanistan maybe to make for the asylum seekers we keep and ballance things out a bit.

Be rather funny, tv could make a reality show,

scumbag gets air ticket, thinks he has won a good deal, the place name looks exotic, the sentence (confidence building trip abroad).

scumbag all smiles boards plane, hours later is handed a parachute and pushed out of the plane door over afghanistan wearing a hidden cam with a transmitter so we can all watch in awe and the 'hard crim' makes friends with the welcoming locals and their forgiving ways.

:eek:

Merlin5 · 2 Nov 2009 at 13:37

There's only one answer really. Conscription for these toe rags.

RizZy · 2 Nov 2009 at 13:51

Clearly I've been going about this all the wrong way, heres me working & saving for a deposit & mortgage & all I really needed to do was be a scumbag.

Vonhelmet · 2 Nov 2009 at 13:52

Nickg said:
then he needs to learn that doing bad, illegal things result in punishment...not reward.

otherwise, how can he know anything else and then what is his incentive to not be a bad person?

Do we have any plans to teach him to be a good person at any stage of the game?

Hitman_Leon · 2 Nov 2009 at 14:02

Merlin5 said:
There's only one answer really. Conscription for these toe rags.

You want people like that using military weapons, protecting our country and projecting our international will,

as if the mullah's dont already have enough poster boys for jihad recruitment :eek:

Maybe you meant they could use moving targets to train our soldiers, conscription to work as range targets

.

linktoinsanity · 2 Nov 2009 at 14:26

vonhelmet said:
Do we have any plans to teach him to be a good person at any stage of the game?

Well, at the very simplest level he'll learn that doing good things will make less bad things happen to him...

Merlin5 · 2 Nov 2009 at 14:29

Hitman_Leon said:
You want people like that using military weapons, protecting our country and projecting our international will,

as if the mullah's dont already have enough poster boys for jihad recruitment

Maybe you meant they could use moving targets to train our soldiers, conscription to work as range targets .

As moving targets, yes.

The Running Man · 2 Nov 2009 at 14:31

vonhelmet said:
Do we have any plans to teach him to be a good person at any stage of the game?

i think it must be punishment first. instill a sense of, 'though shalt not repeat sin'...if he cannot be trusted to do this... which is clearly the case as he has repeated the act some 630 times, then it might be possible that you just have a 'bad egg'...someone who will never be able to differentiate between right and wrong.

is it fair on his next victim if you do NOT incarcerate him?

id rather that someone who has committed so many crimes lose their freedom, than an innocent member of society lose anything to him.

there is no way that anyone can truly believe that stealing is not bad. he knows its bad. yet he continued. the last thing we need is for him to be confronted and stopped in someones house, only for the house owner to go through the ordeal of being prosecuted for defending their own property from a theif.

Vonhelmet · 2 Nov 2009 at 15:44

I'm not saying we shouldn't punish him. Just saying that punishment without rehabilitation solves very, very little of the crime problem.

The Running Man · 2 Nov 2009 at 15:50

im saying that rehabilitating people by giving them things that law abiding folks cannot afford INSTEAD of punishing them is not fair, not moral, and ultimately only an incentive to make a life of crime.

most crims are beyond rehabilitation. We (wrongly) seem to assume that everyone deserves to be and CAN be rehabilitated. continually sending out messages that committing crime is not wrong and that you will be rewarded for it not only reinforces negative behaviour but is also induces further ill feeling from the general public.

ash_91 · 2 Nov 2009 at 15:58

iKettles said:
He's getting moved to my town, joy.

From my town

Chimerical · 2 Nov 2009 at 16:17

LinktoInsanity said:
What are you going on about?

So your saying that if someone was born into a life where his father and mother were physcopaths and went around killing people and he followed by doing the same thing that he would be right to do so? As it was all he had known, hurting other people would be absolutely fine?

You do realise that poverty has strong links to a lot of crime? It's quite important to understand why people commit crimes in the first place if you're ever going to stand a chance at preventing it in the future.

It's got nothing to do with variation, it's about right and wrong and breaking the law means he should be punished. I'm not suggesting he gets life imprisionment or anything that extreme, but punishment and rehabilitation is what he should get, not a new home with everything paid for for both him and his girlfriend.

Of course, that makes it right.

The sarcasm and rolleyes are quite unnecessary.

So giving him a criminal record and zero chance of future employment is going to help is it? Ruining his life so that his only logical alternative is more crime is obviously not going to work.

Also, he's getting the home for co-operating with the Police. He's helping them out and I'm more likely to trust a Judge's opinion on whether he should be released not a tabloid newspaper and what the general public think.

Vonhelmet · 2 Nov 2009 at 16:19

Nickg said:
im saying that rehabilitating people by giving them things that law abiding folks cannot afford INSTEAD of punishing them is not fair, not moral, and ultimately only an incentive to make a life of crime.

Oh, I agree. The treatment of the criminal in the OP is clearly absurd. That's all carrot and no stick and makes no sense at all. He's not being taught anything useful. There's no sense of rehabilitation there. All he's learnt is that his crimes to date have got him a house, which is crazy.

Nickg said:
most crims are beyond rehabilitation. We (wrongly) seem to assume that everyone deserves to be and CAN be rehabilitated.

I'm not at all convinced by this. On what are you basing the idea that people can't be rehabilitated?

Nickg said:
continually sending out messages that committing crime is not wrong and that you will be rewarded for it not only reinforces negative behaviour but is also induces further ill feeling from the general public.

True.