Death of the manual gearbox.

Robbie G said:
Why do you need to know what gear you're in? You just need to know you're in the right one, which can be easily detected by the engine noise and the feel of the car when accelerating.
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I think you answered your own question. The reason I need to know what gear I'm in is to ensure I'm in the right one, why else?
Robbie G said:
What about rally drivers driving cars with sequential gears? Aside from the fact that they probably know intuitively what gear they're in, the only way they know for sure is by looking at the display. I'm not comparing your average DSG equipped vehicle to your average rally car in terms of either equipment or driving experience, but surely they don't have time to keep checking their display to make sure that the gear they've selected is the most appropriate.
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If I was driving a rally car, therefore thrashing it constantly for hours on end then it would be easier as I'd be constantly up and down the gears of my choosing (I'm sure that sequential doesn't helpfully put you into 6th gear at 30mph like the TT does). When you're driving around down at under 30mph you have to watch the dash display as you can be any of the 6 gears which is ridiculous.

As I said, if I had full control of the gearbox then DSG would be fine however I don't like how it decides that it knows best.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
The official figure should not be read as what you will do at 70mph though. Thats my point, its average is 37mph with 70mph attained for all of 4 seconds or something stupid like that.
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True but in the past it was a good indicator of what you can easily attain if you stick to the speed limit on the Motorway. Obviously this isnt the case, yet this is not clear to consumers. Infact, consumers are encouraged to compare the published figures with existing cars. I was even told by the dealer 'You'll like the economy, it has a combined of 62mpg versus 29.7 in your car!).

It was not, however, twice as economical (But still pretty good).

Is your car based on the NEDC? N being the key bit of New as the ratings changed somewhat as the drive cycle was updated. With the NEDC if there is a shift indicator the operator has to follow that aswell.
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I don't know. When did these come in?
 
R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
Just out of interest have you tried not using the cruise control on the motorway? It sounds daft I know,not to mention it defeats the whole point of cruise control! but I've found with both cars & trucks that i get better MPG by adjusting my throttle position myself rather than leaving the cruise to do it.
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Yea - the 118d had no cruise. I think that made it even worse, perhaps as a result of having cruise on every car I've owned in the last 5.5 years I found my ability to hold a completely steady speed was utterly rubbish. I kept creeping up to 90.. kph.
 
[TW]Fox;15234372 said:
I found my ability to hold a completely steady speed was utterly rubbish. I kept creeping up to 90.. kph.
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90 KPH? Thats about 56 MPH? if that's the speed you creep upto, how fast do you drive on Motorways? 50?

Or, it it a small dig at the fact that my truck has a speed limiter (89KPH)?
 
Robbie G said:
Yes but looking at the display isn't the only way to tell that you're in the right gear, as I mentioned above.
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So at say 25mph you could be in 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th depending on how economical the DSG feels today. I don't want to have that uncertaintly, I want to know that when I've chosen 3rd gear, that it stays in 3rd gear until I choose something else. I don't want my DSG deciding that I've increased my speed to 27mph at some point and therefore 6th gear is more appropriate or that if I strayed down to 25mph then 2nd gear is more appropriate.

I chose 3rd gear so I damn well want 3rd gear, I don't want my gearbox thinking it knows what I'm going to do next. It doesn't know if I'm in economical mode or whether I'm in time attack mode, that's for me to decide and not my car.
 
I will stick with manuals personally. The only auto I would drive is a CVT box just for the smooth factor (no shift shock) and reduced noise.
 
karlbbb said:
I will stick with manuals personally. The only auto I would drive is a CVT box just for the smooth factor (no shift shock) and reduced noise.
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I would defy you to notice when a decent traditional automatic has changed gear :)
 
My parents until last week owned a Vauxhall Astra (the model before the newest one) with an automatic of sorts (I think it's called s-tronic). It was the slowest and lurchiest gear change I've ever experienced, absolutely terrible.

If that was a sign of the kind of autos we might get in small cheap hatchbacks, then I'd keep the manual any day.
 
Jez said:
I would defy you to notice when a decent traditional automatic has changed gear :)
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OllyM said:
Indeed, if you can then it's broken or a rubbish gearbox - my car changes perfectly smoothly.
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To be fair, I've only driven an auto Merc Sprinter (traditional auto) recently, but it was relatively smooth. I drove a Nissan Qaushqieiai the other week with the CVT box, and I really enjoyed how it accelerated around town whilst barely getting above 1500rpm.
 
This is only because Americans don't know how to use manual gearbox.

And the 65 year old directors that can afford Ferraris don't actually know, or want, to use the car to do what it is capable of.

How annoying. Formula 1 cars arn't fully automatic for very good reasons .. less control .. less power .. more to go wrong .. the driver knows when to change gear more than a car.
 
karlbbb said:
To be fair, I've only driven an auto Merc Sprinter (traditional auto) recently, but it was relatively smooth. I drove a Nissan Qaushqieiai the other week with the CVT box, and I really enjoyed how it accelerated around town whilst barely getting above 1500rpm.
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Exactly how (for example) an S-class drives. 7 speed, totally smooth. The engine will never see much beyond 1800-2000rpm if you dont want it to and you absolutely cannot hear it or feel it. Not much point in a CVT when traditional auto's are so good.

TBH the same is true even in my old gen S-class, only a 5 speed but again you would be very very hard pressed to notice anything about how it is being driven, the engine is inaudible from the cabin so no clues there etc. The car seemingly just goes on the go pedal, faster and faster as you press it further, and stops on the stop.
 
Jez said:
Exactly how (for example) an S-class drives. 7 speed, totally smooth. The engine will never see much beyond 1800-2000rpm if you dont want it to and you absolutely cannot hear it or feel it. Not much point in a CVT when traditional auto's are so good.

TBH the same is true even in my old gen S-class, only a 5 speed but again you would be very very hard pressed to notice anything about how it is being driven, the engine is inaudible from the cabin so no clues there etc. The car seemingly just goes on the go pedal, faster and faster as you press it further, and stops on the stop.
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Unfortunately I probably won't ever be able to afford a Merc ;) so I'm not sure I'll ever get a car with such good refinement.

But I believe CVT's offer a fuel economy benefit (even if only slight) due to most using a computer controlled clutch rather than a torque convertor as on most automatic (planetary gearset) 'boxes.
 
A nice torque convertor auto and a big capacity engine delivers seemlessly smooth and refined changes and are perfect for wafting about. Even the Toyota autobox in the Aurions I drove in Australia offered a near inperceptable gearchange.

Small autos with 1.2 4 pots suck, though.
 
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