MMRPG's, FPS's etc - Griefing..fun or childish

Rroff said:
I've taken to builds that don't require implants and running around in tricked out T1 frigates or ships ~2 levels below my current skills - makes the game far less frustrating.

Saw someone with I think the name tyler but might have been tiller smart bomb jita awhile back heh.
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hah yeah but I found the more cash in a ship the more fun pvp was....

when faction ships were good years ago I used to pvp in a rattlesnake and navy ravens, lost a 2.5bill isk rattlesnake while gate camping :)

made a lot of isk with smartbombs, me and my alt would just sit in rancer in rokhs each fitted with around 800mill isk of faction smarties and blow up everything dropping out of warp... even haulers used to insta pop :)

biggest pirating kill was a hauler with approx 45bill isk or cargo, it all blew up though... no doubt it's owner was abit annoyed
 
I don't play MMOs anymore but that's partly due to having better things to do with my time! However I think they're great fun, social games (generally) and can require a great deal of skill to play well (DAOC - RvR especially!). Teamwork is also vital on most of them..

Many good memories of MMOs, but glad I've given them up for real life stuff, my only problem with them is that they're designed to suck you in and keep you playing for those subs, which frankly will inevitably mean real life suffering if you become addicted.

Always disliked people seeing them as childish or daft - we all play games, it's just one more genre of them.

I will never allow any of my kids to play one though.. if I ever have kids!
 
Flukester said:
I hate to say that was all I used to play for...

WOW

once I reached level 60, just by grinding I used to spend all my time just being plain evil. I think i reached this way of thinking after being ganked once while running a mission and it changed the way I played forever.

used to hold up in low level towns on roofs and just rain death down on newbs..... often me and a bunch of guild m8s would just hold up in a low level town building and fight them off as long as possible, kind of like COD Zombies but real people :)

once killed (by luck) a entire large raiding party of around 50 lower level alliance dudes with AOE on my mage... that was possibly the funniest thing I've ever seen.


EVE ONLINE

I gained fame in the eve universe (char was Tiller) just by killing everything and anyone I came across.. I think at the end of my sub I had slain over 20,000 people and it got to a stage where I didn't have to worry about in game currency as corps payed me just not to shoot them. Even had people send me cash while I was AFK and docked lol


Fun times...
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That's superb. I need to start hanging around with you in games. :p

In WoW I'd gank anyone of the opposite faction. It's part of the game. Good vs Evil. A lot of people would moan but it's WoW, so what do you expect?
 
Flukester said:
people who get upset by griefers are either

1. sado's who need to get a life
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I completely disagree. Everyone can take a joke from a grief, but continous griefing that ruins something for everyone is incrediably fustrating at times, especially if you are short on time. There is a line that most griefers cross going from "that was quite funny" to "ok that was funny the 1st 100 times you did it, stop now".
 
Sleepery said:
I think Tombstone's point is, if you ran the risk of meeting face to face the person you were acting the arse towards, would you still grief them?
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Maybe, but I think if someone is willing to go round to someones house to 'sort them out' just because he/she cant see the funny side of a bit o grief in a video game then its they who have the problem I reckon!
 
skullman said:
Maybe, but I think if someone is willing to go round to someones house to 'sort them out' just because he/she cant see the funny side of a bit o grief in a video game then its they who have the problem I reckon!
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That's not really what I'm saying though. It's more from the griefer's point of view - if they knew they didn't have the anonymity of the net behind them, how many of them would still act the way they do?

I'm not suggesting anyone go around and 'sort out' anyone else :rolleyes:
 
Sleepery said:
That's not really what I'm saying though. It's more from the griefer's point of view - if they knew they didn't have the anonymity of the net behind them, how many of them would still act the way they do?

I'm not suggesting anyone go around and 'sort out' anyone else :rolleyes:
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none of them or 'us' , but that is the point, in RL i am polite, honest, trustworthy and loyal, on agame i can be whatever i want
 
This thread makes me think of one of the best episodes of South Park...

SouthParkWoWLoser.jpg
 
MikeB said:
The place I am thinkingg of was the hell on earth to run to, had a lifestone in the middle and big crowds just mulling about. in the days when level 40+ was high level (I was over 60 at the time). Ex Solclaimer btw
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Leafcull here. I went back to the game not that long ago to relive old times. Sadly it didn't really live up to my memories :*(
 
I went through a point where I constantly griefed, I actually made a griefing clan in Warcraft III that was pretty succesful, I used to unsummon my base in team games and pretend the game was bugged, etc, so funny at the time :p or share control with a night elf player and then detonate all his wisps, hahahaha. As a night elf I always used to unroot my base at the start and go marching across the map. Or just attack team mates outright. Or build nothing but peons... infact, now I think about it, Warcraft III was the best griefing game of all time.

I don't really do it anymore though...well, saying that, I've started to kinda 'grief' in MW2 by playing with outrageous classes like only using the knife :p

And of course the old classic of going into a hardcore match on Call of Duty 4 and instantly firing a rocket launcher into the ground.
 
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When I was young I used to grief all the time in HL1-based games. Used to TK, spam stuff over voice comm with HLSS, use hacks etc. :D

I remember in Natural Selection whenever I could get comm I would instantly sell everything, and then spam med packs till I ran out of money lol.

I grew out of it years ago but I don't really regret it, it's hardly a crime is it. ;)

I never ganked in WoW though, always /waved or /saluted enemy players. :)
 
petemyster said:
I completely disagree. Everyone can take a joke from a grief, but continous griefing that ruins something for everyone is incrediably fustrating at times, especially if you are short on time. There is a line that most griefers cross going from "that was quite funny" to "ok that was funny the 1st 100 times you did it, stop now".
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The thing is, if it's in the game mechanics, ie - the software company allow a gameplay style then it's tough luck

If my gameplay style happens to spoil someone elses fun I'm not going to shed a tear. I'm in the MMO for riches / fun / PKing and in game kicks / fame.

In eve for example, you can stick to secure space and be totally safe if you know what your doing. Venture to low sec space where pirates are known to blow stuff up for kicks then it's your own fault. I used to get real kicks from stealing other peoples hard work... made me laugh every time. (the hate mail you used to get, and I add real life threats was amazing... though once had cancer wished on my children that I thought was going over the line)

Also once someone threated to find my corp m8 in RL and cut his throat... he was permabanned (the infamous ginger magician), mind you we had just scammed him out of 20+ bill isk lol

There must be good and bad in every game, and experienced 'bad' players often pass on a lot of gameplay knowledge to newbs.

Do something exciting, roleplay the bad guy, the person you are not in real life... thats what roleplay is about being something different in a virtual world. How boring MMOs would be if everyone was nice, no excitement knowing someone could gank you at any moment in the toughest of mission and possibly steal months of hard work from you

In WOW you don't lose anything by being PVPd, so it's just a minor annoyance, and if the victim doesn't like it he should have gone on a RP server
 
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Red = dead. Simples. I've played enough MMOs to understand it works both ways.

My fave "griefing" episode was possibly in SWG, as per usual I was being BH'd and spent about an hour FR3'ing around Tatooine trying to keep away from a bunch of idiots with my mission, this was in the GTEF days. Bounty hunters didnt come alone, you had a group to fight, it was about 4v1, and yeah one was a CM :(
So I managed to pick them all off one by one, nobody said a word to me except the one guy, happened to be a Smuggler/Rifleman. Anyways he proceeded to feign death, anyone familiar with SWG would know FD has its flaws, he didnt get off the ground for around an hour and when he did al his armour was 0 dura and all his bars black :D

In the aftermath words were traded, I got suspended :/ was fun though!
 
MikeB said:
none of them or 'us' , but that is the point, in RL i am polite, honest, trustworthy and loyal, on agame i can be whatever i want
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Ah but again the question is this..

In real life, would you wander over to some people playing chess and knock all their pieces off the board? Would you repeatedly wander onto a tennis court and kick their tennis ball off the court? Would you, for example, at a game of snooker go up to the table and start picking up the balls and throw them away?

Those are all also just games...the big major difference between those actions and online games is that the people you are doing it to can retaliate in real life, whereas you know that the people online cant. Which of course bodes the question are you "polite, honest, trustworthy and loyal" because you truly want to be, or because you have to be. (I'm those things in RL because I have to be, not because I want to be)

As I mentioned earlier, a famous philosopher once said of the Roman Senate, "The bravest of men can be found in the safest of places", what he was inferring was that people get extra bravado when they know there is no chance of reprisal. I would wager that very very very few of the people who willingly and repeatedly grief online would do any of those things I listed above, for the simple reason that they know theres a chance of reprisal if they did it in real life. Thus one of the factors in them doing it online is not only "fun", but that they know full well that nothing can happen.

Another factor of course is that they just enjoy annoying people, its interesting that many griefers tales revolve not around the act, but around the responses of those that have been griefed, they often talk of the people whining on the forums or ingame...its almost like the kick for them comes from annoying people and seeing their response. Few talk about the people who just wandered away without saying anything, indeed many after griefing immediately run to the forums to see if anyone is there complaining, I think for a lot of them that is as much the enjoyment as the original act. No idea why someone would be like that, pent up aggression or latent anger, who knows, not something I could do but then everyone is different.
 
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Flukester said:
Do something exciting, roleplay the bad guy, the person you are not in real life... thats what roleplay is about being something different in a virtual world.
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Just a minor correction, I've roleplayed for over 30 years, roleplay really isnt necessarily about being different personality wise in a virtual world. Though admittedly the "I am roleplaying a bad guy" is an excuse that I've seen many griefers use online since the days of UO in the late 90s, although many of them havent got a clue what Roleplay is, metagaming yes, Roleplay no. Some do genuinely Roleplay a bad guy though, but its very few.
 
deleted said:
Red = dead. Simples. I've played enough MMOs to understand it works both ways.
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Ah but Red = Dead isnt necessarily griefing, its simply pvping.

Thats why I mentioned in an earlier post that many people get confused about the difference between griefing and ganking/pking.

I see an enemy player and I kill him, thats not griefing.

However..lets say that I follow another player around who is on my faction. Everytime he goes to kill something I jump in and steal the kill, every time he goes to collect a resource, I jump in and take it. Thats griefing.

Lets say I see a red player, fighting a mob, I run up and kill him. Thats ganking/pvping.

Now lets say I see a red player running towards me, but I happen to know that there is a graphical glitch on the hill next to me that allows me to stand inside it and I can shoot out, but he cant damage me as I am inside the hill. So I stand inside the graphic glitch and kill him and everyone else that comes near, fully knowing that because of the graphic error I cannot be killed. Thats griefing.

One of those is fair enough and playing within the expected rules of the game and so not griefing imo, the other is making use of game mechanics or exploits to do something which is not in the spirit of the game and is griefing imo.

Must be difficult being a game dev, particularly for online games, because the one thing you can be certain of when designing a game is that people will seek out any way possible to give themselves an advantage, whether its mechanics, exploits or third party programs. Must be very hard to come up with a game world that people cant find an exploit in, though its very interesting that in many cases people use the exploit to annoy rather than to benefit. I'm sure theres a pyschology thesis for someone in that.
 
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