Islamic protest march planned for Wootton Basset

All of which pales into insignificance against the number of civillians which are killed by the taliban. But it does seem that Mr Choudary, like far too many (even moderate) muslims, are quite prepared to ignore the killing when it is muslims doing it.

:confused:

Your justifying / belittling a wrong with another wrong !! Crazy!

''insignificance'' I doubt the people abused, raped, tortured and family/friends of those sadly murdered would describe it as 'insignificant' :rolleyes:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ening-sex-assault-on-iraqi-boy-14-866482.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/16/baha-mousa-inquiry-corporal-accusations

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6971638.ece

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ter-father-saw-soldiers-stealing-1792073.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4416116.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/apr/01/iraq.usa
 
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Why is it utter ****, as you put it? why should they do something that other religious groups are not expected to do?

Have you seen any good Muslim groups on tv today saying how bad the march would be?? Er NO I have seen an MP, local people from that area ect but guess what? Not a single Muslim. Go on muslim council of Britain get some BALLs and turf the #### out!
 
The same reason Nick Griffin and his ilk are.

Anjem Choudary is the leader of the British Islamist group, Islam for UK, and a follower of Omar Bakri Muhammad. He is a British citizen, and helped found two Islamist organisations - Al-Muhajiroun and The Saviour Sect - that were later designated and banned as terrorist by the British government. Choudary has urged Muslims to not cooperate with the police in fighting terrorism, and in September 2006 was investigated after he allegedly called for the assassination of the Pope.
 
Discrimination is discrimination no matter whether the trait you are being discriminated against is voluntary or not and all discrimination should be treated as equally wrong.

I disagree. If for example I choose not to hire someone that is racist should that be as bad as not hiring someone that is black?

I do not agree that Islam is inherently any more bigoted that any other religion or political party or ethnic group or whatever. People interpret ideology as they see it, some with a bigoted view, some with an extreme view, most with a moderate view.

Very few religions call for the death penalty for homosexuality. Very few religions specifically state in their holy books that women should be given lesser treatment in some areas.

To suggest that Islam is different in this way is discriminating against it.

Then call me bigoted if you wish (hell, call me racist if you prefer) but I do think that Islam has some differences in the way it is set up and the way it is generally enacted compared to other religions. I think the prime difference is the difference between "divinely inspired" and "actual word of God". As the Koran is said to be the actual word of God as dictated to Mohammed there is much less room for interpretation than the bible for example.

As do we when the West are doing it. The Blackwater six for example.

Not really sure how this is at all equivilant considering how the Blackwater six were sent to trail by the West, in the West and there is little dispute about what they did, however they got off on a technicality. (Other than the one that pleaded guilty...). Not to mention numerous other cases where soldiers have been court martialed for acting outside the constaints of their orders.

Compare and contrast this to the fuss made in the UN about Israel and the silence about the much greater scale of death in Darfur. And the utter silence (and sometimes denial) about the vast majority of deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan being done by muslims to muslims. It does seem that the muslim brotherhood only actually counts if the people getting killed are muslims and the people doing the killing are not.
 
Have you seen any good Muslim groups on tv today saying how bad the march would be?? Er NO I have seen an MP, local people from that area ect but guess what? Not a single Muslim. Go on muslim council of Britain get some BALLs and turf the #### out!

There are moderate groups who speak out all the time. The BMC spoke out about this as far back as october, the fact that it has taken this long for everyone else to catch on is whats wrong.

http://www.reformislam.org/

here is one group that is the opposite of Islam4uk.
 
:confused:

Your justifying / belittling a wrong with another wrong !! Crazy!

No, I am wondering why Choudary and so many other muslims are decrying the west whilst conveniently ignoring the major source of bloodshed being muslim on muslim? You are happy to admit that the vast majority of dead are at the hands of their fellow muslims aren't you?

''insignificance'' I doubt the people abused, raped, tortured and family/friends of those sadly murdered would describe it as 'insignificant' :rolleyes:

Excellent, an appeal to emotion rather than an actual argument. Good one.
 
I disagree. If for example I choose not to hire someone that is racist should that be as bad as not hiring someone that is black?

That would depend, If you refused to hire the racist without proof of his breaking any laws, then yes it is as bad. More socially acceptable maybe, but thats not the same thing.


Very few religions call for the death penalty for homosexuality. Very few religions specifically state in their holy books that women should be given lesser treatment in some areas.

Christianity does, Leviticus it states " "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." now we do not take that to its literal meaning in christianity do we, why should we expect Muslims to within their religion.

Corinthians states "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. " which is pretty pervasive in meaning. there are many more. Again its about interpretation. With a more modern view of each religion this is apparent.

http://www.reformislam.org/



Then call me bigoted if you wish (hell, call me racist if you prefer) but I do think that Islam has some differences in the way it is set up and the way it is generally enacted compared to other religions. I think the prime difference is the difference between "divinely inspired" and "actual word of God". As the Koran is said to be the actual word of God as dictated to Mohammed there is much less room for interpretation than the bible for example.

I dont think you are a Racist or bigoted. You have an opinion which is reasoned, unlike Angilion who does not want to defend his position, thus can be said to be bigoted.

The Bible is considered the word of god, it is considered by christians as the Divine Revelation, most of the 66 books state on over 4000 occasions " "Thus says the Lord," or "The word of the Lord came unto me," or word to that effect. So it can be considered the actual word of god as passed to the men who wrote it. Not unlike Mohammed or the sixty or so Sahaba who wrote the Quran.

Not really sure how this is at all equivilant considering how the Blackwater six were sent to trail by the West, in the West and there is little dispute about what they did, however they got off on a technicality. (Other than the one that pleaded guilty...). Not to mention numerous other cases where soldiers have been court martialed for acting outside the constaints of their orders.


Where were the Christian churches when the serbians were ethnic cleansing their Muslim population?, they denounced it much the same as the moderate Islamic groups now. Why are we always holding Muslims to a different set of rules than other like groups.



Compare and contrast this to the fuss made in the UN about Israel and the silence about the much greater scale of death in Darfur. And the utter silence (and sometimes denial) about the vast majority of deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan being done by muslims to muslims. It does seem that the muslim brotherhood only actually counts if the people getting killed are muslims and the people doing the killing are not.

I think that the problem lies with media coverage, rather than any actual denouncement. The denouncement by the BMC over the wooton Basset march is a good example. they denounced it in october, no news service picked it up until the extremist faction started shouting about it
 
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The proposed march by members of Islam4UK is however of a very different venture, held not in memory of the occupying and merciless British military, but rather the real war dead who have been shunned by the Western media and general public as they were and continue to be horrifically murdered in the name of Democracy and Freedom - the innocent Muslim men, women and children.

It is quite extraordinary, that with well over 100,000 Muslims killed in Afghanistan in the last 8 years that those military serviceman who have directly or indirectly contributed to their death are paraded as war heroes and moreover honoured for what is ultimately genocide.
not being funny, if they were that concerned, they would join against the coalition or start handing over the people that are the root of the problem.
 
Edit that to

No Religion = better world

No to be honest I think its just Islam.

I mean yes the other religions cause there own problems but the reaction is usually just "Oh look, their at it again, will they ever learn!" because the pope has denounced homosexuality, but with Islam it's "Oh look, another Islamic extremist has killed or tried to kill dozens of people.....again".
 
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No to be honest I think its just Islam.

I mean yes the other religions cause there own problems but the reaction is usually just "Oh look, their at it again, will they ever learn!" because the pope has denounced homosexuality, but with Islam it's "Oh look, another Islamic extremist has killed or tried to kill dozens of people.....again".

Were as the pope lying about the effectiveness of condoms against HIV to uneducated Africans has lead to no deaths whatsoever...


Religion really works a small level (local church doing community work for example) but fails massively once it becomes a large organization.
 
Christianity does, Leviticus it states " "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." now we do not take that to its literal meaning in christianity do we, why should we expect Muslims to within their religion.

For a start Christians as a whole do not follow Leviticus. Find me a passage in the New Testament saying "Put homosexuals to death" and you may then have a point.


Corinthians states "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. " which is pretty pervasive in meaning. there are many more. Again its about interpretation. With a more modern view of each religion this is apparent.

It doesn't however say "One male witness or failing that three women please" or "Hey, being a woman you inherit half of what a man does, tough luck" and it also doesn't say "Slap the wife if she misbehaves" (some paraphrasing may have occured...).

The problem is that the Bible has passages that can be interpreted quite widely whereas the Koran has some instructions which leave very little leeway (as well as some instructions which can be interpreted quite widely...). Also looking at the evolution of Islam it is a very different religion used from the very start as a control mechanism (whereas Christianity seemed to develop into one and then got better).


The Bible is considered the word of god, it is considered by christians as the Divine Revelation, most of the 66 books state on over 4000 occasions " "Thus says the Lord," or "The word of the Lord came unto me," or word to that effect. So it can be considered the actual word of god as passed to the men who wrote it. Not unlike Mohammed or the sixty or so Sahaba who wrote the Quran.

The point is that the bible does actually state the bits which God himself is saying, the Koran on the other hand is all God, all the time. Anything Mohammed said was from God and so had to be obeyed (handy that). I also quite like the "Oh, God said I am the last Prophet too, so no new stuff OK?"


Where were the Christian churches when the serbians were ethnic cleansing their Muslim population?, they denounced it much the same as the moderate Islamic groups now. Why are we always holding Muslims to a different set of rules than other like groups.

That is the problem, while I see quite a bit about them denouncing terrorism and extremist groups such as this, I see very little coming from moderate muslims denouncing the actions of muslim "insurgents" in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have seen on this very board some moderate muslims pretty much try to excuse their actions and blame it all on the west. Or like some in this very thread just ignore it while decrying the Wests actions.

I think that the problem lies with media coverage, rather than any actual denouncement.

You think that the very different stances by the UN on the two issues are to do with media coverage? That would be to completely ignore the huge bias against Israel in the UN as a whole (as opposed to in the Security council where Israel has at least 1 veto on tap for the really tricky resolutions).

The denouncement by the BMC over the wooton Basset march is a good example. they denounced it in october, no news service picked it up until the extremist faction started shouting about it

I think you are being very naive if you don't think that muslim nations and organisations are much more likely to turn a blind eye to aggression by muslims.
 
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