How much would you charge?

[[TW]Fox]

You would think so, wouldn't you? I did a job before Christmas that was basically putting 4 workstations and a printer on some desks and connecting them to a switch, the client was quoted £760 per day (2 days work).

Absolutely barking mad quite how much money people will pay for tasks as relatively simple as this*.

*I know everything is simple if you know how but the amount of whinging that goes on about how much main dealers charge for car servicing and thats 'only' £100 an hour in a huge glass palace type franchise...

To pay £600 a day for some guy and his mate to turn up, whack some cable down, configure a few workstations and run some wireless access points is daylight robbery.

It's the sort of rate one corporate multinational solutions provider would charge another cororpoate multinational for that sort of work.

£600 a day should get proper skilled labourers to do actual skilled work, not people to lay cables and fiddle with routers! I wouldnt pay £600 a day for a carptenter and arguably thats far more skilled than being an IT tech.

Why are companies prepared to pay this much money!? They'd pay less if they wanted somebody to do something that is actually difficult and requires actual skill!

This sort of job isnt a dark art. It isnt super special and amazing. It's the sort of stuff that once you've worked out how to do it, is pretty simple. £600 a day is the sort of rate that should get charged for stuff which even to a seasoned professional requires proper skill.

 

[Sin_Chase]

Fox I suggest you pipe down a little as you clearly have little exposure to the IT world in this sense.

If it is a professional job, done right, that will last and work as expected it's not something you or any other hobbiest home user could turn up and do.

Active Directory and domain environments can be very easy for people who work with it all the time or those who have chosen to learn it but it is very easy to mess up. I've lost count of the amount of cowboy sites I turn up to and have to fix as a result of the attitude "That's way too expensive to fiddle with some PCs, lets pay someone cheap".

I am assuming the OP is in a position to offer a professional service and as such the kind of pricing you are seeing suggested is pretty reasonable.

A company will pay £85 for 5 minutes of work why? Because their time is worth more than that and me arriving and fixing it is what they pay for. Trying to compare this kind of work to a main dealer and their pricing is ridiculous. You get what you pay for in IT largely and the difference between something which sort of works and works properly and efficiently is huge. There is hardly a lot of deviance in the standard of swapping out a filter and some fluids, is there?

 

[[TW]Fox]

The OP isn't installing an active directory server or configuring a domain environment. He is only going to have 4 user PC's. No way does this sort of work justify that kind of day rate. It's ridiculous.

It's no qualification work that is very easy to learn and once you can do it, is very easy to carry out. Sure, a lot of things are like that, but this should be reflected in the price. Being a lawyer for example, is not very easy work, and takes more than 8 years to qualify. Therefore these guys can and do justify £100+ an hour for the work they do. I am not a particularly handy person when it comes to DIY stuff but heck even I can crimp cat 5 cable. It's common sense stuff. And if it takes more than an hour once the cable is down to do the actual 'IT' stuff of plugging 4 desktops into a switch and configuring the network something is very wrong.

Crimping cat 5 and configuring a 4 computer workstation? I doubt there are many people on this forum who couldnt do that and whilst that doesnt mean people are daft for paying people to do it, it does mean that if the situation has arisen where people can routinely charge £600 a day for this sort of work then something is very, very wrong.

You are obviously going to be very defensive of the work you do, thats only natural, but if you think you are worth even half what a doctor or a lawyer is per hour then.... well, I'm lost for words. Even plumbers dont take the mick like that. I'm trying really hard (And probably failing) to be disrespectful and it's really not personal I'm just shocked that people can actually charge that much money for that sort of work.

It'd be like me being able to charge £100 an hour for being a gardener :/

As for home hobbyists not being able to do it - what do you think the OP is then? He clearly isnt a seasoned professional if he needs to ask us how much to charge and has a mate who is going to do the cabling. He's a home hobbyist who 'knows IT'. Just like most of us here, I'd imagine.

 

[Sin_Chase]

I work with 4 PC Active Directory environments. The OP has not suggested if it is a domain environment or not but uttering the words "User Profiles" hints that it would be. Perhaps not but the fact of the matter is this. most companies you will approach for this kind of work will not be charging fifty quid a day for the work.

2-3 grand to a hotel is not a lot of money for a system they will rely on. 3 grand might seem a lot to you, for the equivalent at home - but this is clearly not the customer.

You can crimp cat5 cable, sweet. Are you aware of the building regulations? Are you aware of best practice when doing runs?

 

[Duke]

He is setting up a domain and users (and probably some basic group policy) so that amount per day - bar the cabling of course - is about right.

 

[LeJosh]

How many times have you edited that Fox?

What would you charge? For planning, buying of and installing of a server/4 man workstation enviroment with wireless capabilities for upto however many quests?

It's for a hotel aswell not a home user. And plus I agree with the points above.

 

[Sin_Chase]

You are obviously going to be very defensive of the work you do, thats only natural, but if you think you are worth even half what a doctor or a lawyer is per hour then.... well, I'm lost for words. Even plumbers dont take the mick like that. I'm trying really hard (And probably failing) to be disrespectful and it's really not personal I'm just shocked that people can actually charge that much money for that sort of work.

Defensive? Perhaps but I think you somewhat underestimate the I.T world beyond home user PCs.

For comparison perhaps understanding that we are selling 50-60 thousand pound solutions and maintain yearly contracts on the scale of six figures puts into perspective that our work is a little less "unskilled" than you perhaps imagine.

Is the OP deploying Cisco kit and blade servers? No. Nonetheless the job will need to be right, secure and for a business (Hotelier) where customer satisfaction is key pushing out a WiFi network exposed to the corporate LAN with shoddy security is going to be business suicide.

Little Timmy on Mums laptop all of a sudden getting a facefull of pr0n is hardly going to go down well, neither is the internal documents being accessible to guests. 2 to 3 grand for peace of mind? I think so.

Obviously how much you pay is not going to guarantee quality of work, but that's not the issue at hand here. The OP knows his limitations and he SHOULD know if he is best placed for the task at hand. His charges should reflect that confidence and the quality of the end solution.

Briefly I think you are looking at this.

Windows SBS on server running a minimum of RAID 1
Router/Firewall combo or entry level firewall appliance+DSL modem
DNS/Exchange config for email (If this is a requirement)
Shares/User Home Drives/Roaming Profiles
Separate network for WiFi. Perhaps VLANing, totally seperate kit or another solution. You cannot expose the internal LAN to guests on WiFi.
Cabling I guess is going to need to be Low-Smoke to meet building regs in a hotel. Likely ran to a patch panels and wall face plates, fully tested and labelled.

That's a fair amount of work, not something I would trust average home user Joe to do.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I work with 4 PC Active Directory environments. The OP has not suggested if it is a domain environment or not but uttering the words "User Profiles" hints that it would be. Perhaps not but the fact of the matter is this. most companies you will approach for this kind of work will not be charging fifty quid a day for the work.

No, I appreciate that. I'm not advocating 50 quid a day. Thats ridiculous.

2-3 grand to a hotel is not a lot of money for a system they will rely on. 3 grand might seem a lot to you, for the equivalent at home - but this is clearly not the customer.

It's not The Hilton is it, or they'd have called a proper limited company to do the work not asked this chap. It'll be a small local affair, perhaps slightly larger than a B&B.

This sort of rate in a corporate environment between two large limited companies, perhaps. But for a guy and his mate to pitch up? No thanks.

If I went to see an ACA qualified Chartered Accountant and he spent an entire day 1 to 1 with me I'd see change from £700.

You can crimp cat5 cable, sweet. Are you aware of the building regulations? Are you aware of best practice when doing runs?

And you think the OP, who needs to ask OcUK what to charge, knows all the building regs? Do you REALLY think that?

For comparison perhaps understanding that we are selling 50-60 thousand pound solutions and maintain yearly contracts on the scale of six figures puts into perspective that our work is a little less "unskilled" than you perhaps imagine.

Your work, sure. I said as easy as my first post that I could see it between large companies. But as I keep saying this is ONE guy who is going to get his mate to help. It's the IT world equivilent of a guy in Vauxhall Combo van.

Little Timmy on Mums laptop all of a sudden getting a facefull of pr0n is hardly going to go down well.

I'm struggling to see a situation whereby that would actually happen. In a small independant hotel environment (I've stayed in plenty) you tend to get... a key to the bog standard wifi router anyway.

Context please - this guy does not run 'tres PLC', does not employ 100 staff and isnt about to get a contract to renetwork all of the Bristol Marriott.

 

[PMKeates]

Obviously how much you pay is not going to guarantee quality of work, but that's not the issue at hand here. The OP knows his limitations and he SHOULD know if he is best placed for the task at hand. His charges should reflect that confidence and the quality of the end solution.

The point stands that there is little that most of us on here couldn't do that will be done.

 

[Phate]

Not that it matters and this is a totally useless piece of info but a I know of a company in London who charge £1000 an hour to do ANY kind of IT Support, so normally you get them in if you have srs problems with your server farms or whatever but I once saw one of their guys making up network cables...

Tough old life eh

 

[Sin_Chase]

You are making a lot of assumptions Fox. How do you know he does not work for a large company and is doing this on the side?

I don't know, but I certainly do know that I work in hotels with IT solutions on the scale of what the OP describes who have 75+ rooms and are classed as a "large company" where 2-3 grand would represent value for a quality solution. If he said B and B then the costing would represent what a B and B would need, like you said.. a WifI router and a standalone PC for business stuff.

But he said hotel and server. Not BnB and Desktop PC

 

[[TW]Fox]

You are making a lot of assumptions Fox. How do you know he does not work for a large company and is doing this on the side?

I don't but even if he is, my point stands. He is not offering the service to the organisation under the umbrella of a well known IT solutions provider with a reputation - the sort of thing many organisations, as you've pointed out, will pay good money for services from.

It's just him, and his mate crimping the cables. This changes everything, IMHO. I think it also means what he is doing is not comparable to what you do, if anything, it cheapens your work to compare it.

I don't know, but I certainly do know that I work in hotels with IT solutions on the scale of what the OP describes who have 75+ rooms and are classed as a "large company" where 2-3 grand would represent value for a quality solution.

FWIW the last hotel I stayed at with that amount of rooms had 3 PC's on the front desk alone, let alone elsewhere in the back office! Its not a B&B but I suspect its a small family run hotel. Which doesnt need anything massive, just 4 PC's, a load of cable, a server and some wifi. And him and his mate are probably just the people to do the job as its overkill for a big company. But not at £700 a day.

They've no idea of the 'quality' of the solution unless:

a) He works for a reputable firm, in which case, why is he asking us about pricing?
b) He is known personally to the person running the business, which again takes us back to the sort of informal setup which just couldnt justify that sort of charging level.

For an enterprise level solution from a respected and established solutions provider to a medium to large sized business, you are spot on. For anything less, and I suspect this is much less, I cannot disagree with you more

 

[POB]

Fox is right,

Hotel does not equal large business.

Based on the OP location it could be he is the only provider on the islands.

4 computers is a tiny network, the average household these days must have at least 2 computers in the home.

 

[Sin_Chase]

The last hotel you stayed in. Some hotels have little IT and are more "old school" in their approach compared to far more modernised establishments.

You have no idea what his plan contains. You do not know whether he needs to run cat5 up multiple floors, through walls, whether he is going to use trunking or not.

I work for a firm that does 80 quid work up to six figure work and even I would seek opinions from other people if I was going to do private work outside of my day-to-day 9 till 5. I personally think 50-60 quid an hour is a reasonable rate for someone who knows their stuff and can provide a WORKING solution and knows the pitfalls and potential issues.

I do not know his plan either but the OP came across in a way that indicates to me more than just a room with 4 PCs a fifth with some extra RAM chucked in and a 2TB disk for a server, some 3 metre cat5 cables and a Netgaer ADSL Wireless router.

If this is the case then you can expect the charge to be significantly less. But for anything SBS on dedicated server hardware with domain config and above the pricing in this thread seems fine.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Some hotels have little IT and are more "old school" in their approach compared to far more modernised establishments.

And will thus be even less sold on the value of a £700 a day rate for a guy to lay some cables.

You have no idea what his plan contains. You do not know whether he needs to run cat5 up multiple floors, through walls, whether he is going to use trunking or not.

Not really sure why that matters - a day rate is a day rate. If there is loads of work it simply means more days and thus even more money at said day rate. I get the impression he personally isnt running Cat 5 anywhere and he describes the cabling as the easier part of the job and his mate is going to do it. He obviously feels the challenge lies with the setup of the equipment.

I work for a firm that does 500 quid work up to six figure work and even I would seek opinions form other people if I was going to do private work outside of my day-to-day 9 till 5.

Does your contract allow you to do that?

I personally think 50-60 quid an hour is a reasonable rate for someone who knows their stuff and can provide a WORKING solution and knows the pitfalls and potential issues.

And of course given that he isnt an established reputable firm himself, the client has no indication that he either 'knows his stuff' nor 'can provide a WORKING solution'. He is an unknown quantity doing it with his mate, his rate should reflect this.

If this is the case then you can expect the charge to be significantly less. But for anything SBS on dedicated server hardware with domain config and above the pricing in this thread seems fine.

I think its a sad world we live in where you can make as much money plugging cables into routers and configuring Microsoft products as you can being a qualified chartered accountant

 

[Sin_Chase]

Fox is right,

Hotel does not equal large business.

Based on the OP location it could be he is the only provider on the islands.

4 computers is a tiny network, the average household these days must have at least 2 computers in the home.

Hotel does not necessarily GUARANTEE a large business. But hey, some of them are.

4 computers is a tiny network, and hey you might have that many PCs in your house. This 100% means the work involved is EASSSSSSSSY and you'll knock it out in a day for 300 quid, right?

You just compared a potential 4 PC Domain environment with your familys desktop, laptops and a media server. Totally the same ball game, just fire up that "Home network" wizard and away you go.

I have worked in Hotels that net large amounts of money and have *drum roll* 4 PCs and a server. But hey, what do I know. I just work in the industry.

 

[xJcBx]

I like computers

 

[POB]

I just work in the industry.

Exactly, and I'm sure you do a great job.

I don't think the OP does (work in the industry in the same way you do).

 

[Sin_Chase]

I think its a sad world we live in where you can make as much money plugging cables into routers and configuring Microsoft products as you can being a qualified chartered accountant

And what dictates the charge rate of someone who is a chartered account?

Is an accountant your choice of work? Are you somehow bitter about it all? Seems to come across that way. Plumbers can charge £60 for pushing pipes together, an indy can charge 40 an hour to put a part on your car. Why is someone who can work with MS products deemed less worth that amount?

Because you fiddle with Windows at home and fancy your chances yourself? That dilutes the value of someone providing an It solution in your eyes?

I simply do not get your position on this one and I will again state that you ARE making a lot of assumptions based on some kind of sixth sense you seem to think you have.

And yes, my contract allows for me to do that.

I can name 3 high street shops locally who would perform operating system re-installs/general fault finding and fixing at anywhere between 30 and 80 pound an hour. HOME USERS pay this. Why is 50-60 to a company shocking?

 

[[TW]Fox]

And what dictates the charge rate of someone who is a chartered account?

7+ years and many tens of thousands of pounds of training?

Is an accountant your choice of work? Are you somehow bitter about it all? Seems to come across that way. Plumbers can charge £60 for pushing pipes together, an indy can charge 40 an hour to put a part on your car. Why is someone who can work with MS products deemed less worth that amount?

Because fiddling with computers at this level (I appreciate enterprise stuff is another matter) is not difficult and does not require qualifications or extensive time consuming study. I am a firm beleiver that the reward for something should reflect the effort to get there.

The effort to become a lawyer, doctor or an accountant or to consistently churn out the sort of results a master carpenter for example can is considerably higher than that required to master putting together a 4 PC network with a server and some wifi.

I think you've taken offence because you think I am belitting your career choice. I'm not. Everything you've told me about YOUR job makes me think its rather different to what the OP will be doing for this hotel. By comparing yourself to this level of work you are selling yourself short.

My opinion is that basic network setup (Yes, BASIC network setup, try 100+ workstations and several servers for a more complex network) does not justify £600 a day charges by a semi-professional and his mate.

I can name 3 high street shops locally who would perform operating system re-installs/general fault finding and fixing at anywhere between 30 and 80 pound an hour. HOME USERS pay this. Why is 50-60 to a company shocking?

Because the home users, foolishly or not, pay for the perceived trust in that brand. The person who actually performs the work does not get between 30 and 80 pound an hour. As for 50-60 to a company - the OP is not a company. He is an individual who is going to get his mate to help him out. He is not a public limited solutions provider so please stop treating him like one. He probably doesn't even have public liability insurance.