UKIP are just embarrassing

Keltik THC said:
SO WHY DIDN'T THE BBC SHOW THE LAST PART OF THIS SPEECH??? WHEN FARRAGE TALKS ABOUT THE CONTEMPT OF THE EUROPEAN APPARATCHIKS AGAINST DEMOCRACY.

FFS. IF YOUR GOING TO COMMENT ON POLITICS THEN GET YOUR NEWS FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE ASIDE FROM THE BBC... in my opinion the OP has just embarrassed himself for buying hook, line and sinker into BBC propaganda.
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Oh noes! It was edited! Teh evil Beebs!

Guess what, the full version still makes him look like an idiot who is incapable of making an argument without resorting ad hominem. We need fewer people like that in positions of government, not more. I'd trade 100% agreement with a politicians policies in favour of their competance any day.
 
Keltik THC said:
ahahaha, yeah Nazi style. have you a shaved head and jackboots too?

Maybe we should also put them in nice little camps with razor wire?
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Godwin's Law.
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To add my own meagre weight into this thread, I'm in split minds about this. On the one hand, I was planning on voting UKIP anyway, most likely. And I agree with his general point. However, like many in this thread I disagree with the way he went about making it.

Spec me an alternative to UKIP.
 
iviv said:
Godwin's Law.
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To add my own meagre weight into this thread, I'm in split minds about this. On the one hand, I was planning on voting UKIP anyway, most likely. And I agree with his general point. However, like many in this thread I disagree with the way he went about making it.

Spec me an alternative to UKIP.
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that's pretty much my thoughts too, although working with these unelected apparatchiks I would probably loose my rag once or twice with them too like Farrage did.

UKIP are by far the most viable to vote with compared to the other parties. Labour/Conservative/Lib Dem/Green/BNP etc.. are by far more of a joke through their policies than their public rhetoric.

Oh - on a side note i believe Farrage is on Question Time tonight, for those of you interested in more than 20 second BBC snippets.
 
It's always amusing when people claim to have a fundamental understanding of the EU, when they clearly don't.

So I'm going to take the possibly inflammatory step of saying unless you have at least studied law or possibly economics (I'm not sure on that one), then your understanding is probably bare bones, minimal and misleading.

Leaving the EU would be bafflingly stupid, don't vote UKIP.
 
Nitefly said:
It's always amusing when people claim to have a fundamental understanding of the EU, when they clearly don't.

So I'm going to take the possibly inflammatory step of saying unless you have at least studied law or possibly economics (I'm not sure on that one), then your understanding is probably bare bones, minimal and misleading.

Leaving the EU would be bafflingly stupid, don't vote UKIP.
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Is that not the fault of the EU and successive UK governments for not better educating us about the benefits of the EU (and the disadvantages)? The average person is hardly going to study law and economics to the degree necessary to understand the situation, especially as they would have to study so many other things to understand them properly too. It is all very well saying "well, you are probably too ignorant to really understand the situation" but that basically means in most matters just leaving it up to other people to do what they think best for us.
 
RDM said:
Is that not the fault of the EU and successive UK governments for not better educating us about the benefits of the EU (and the disadvantages)? The average person is hardly going to study law and economics to the degree necessary to understand the situation, especially as they would have to study so many other things to understand them properly too. It is all very well saying "well, you are probably too ignorant to really understand the situation" but that basically means in most matters just leaving it up to other people to do what they think best for us.
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You're right, although it doesn't help that they've got an extremely EU-hostile media (at least in the newspapers). But I would like to see Labour and the Lib Dems extolling the virtues of the EU a bit more, it's mostly silence from both of them.
 
RDM said:
Is that not the fault of the EU and successive UK governments for not better educating us about the benefits of the EU (and the disadvantages)? The average person is hardly going to study law and economics to the degree necessary to understand the situation, especially as they would have to study so many other things to understand them properly too. It is all very well saying "well, you are probably too ignorant to really understand the situation" but that basically means in most matters just leaving it up to other people to do what they think best for us.
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This is really an inevitable result of anything that is incredibly complex which can affect peoples lives, whether its financial regulation, the criminal law or the EU.

It is complex. There is no way around this. The resources are there for people to investigate if they so wish - plenty of commentaries and text books available from on-line retailers.

When I recognise that something is complicated, such as financial regulations and obligations, I simply refrain from commenting with any vigour because I accept I'm not really in a position to do so.

But just because it's not reasonably within the scope for someone to investigate, it doesn't make it prima facie bad.
 
Nitefly said:
This is really an inevitable result of anything that is incredibly complex which can affect peoples lives, whether its financial regulation, the criminal law or the EU.

It is complex. There is no way around this. The resources are there for people to investigate if they so wish - plenty of commentaries and text books available from on-line retailers.
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So come the next EU elections to make an informed decision the average voter needs to get a selection of commentaries and text books (which ones are suitable would also be a bit hard to work out as they would have no idea who is biased and who isn't) before casting their vote? I can see that working out well. :D

Nitefly said:
When I recognise that something is complicated, such as financial regulations and obligations, I simply refrain from commenting with any vigour because I accept I'm not really in a position to do so.
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Would make for a very dull discussion board as you would have a couple of posters only being able to post in everything but the most banal topics.


Nitefly said:
But just because it's not reasonably within the scope for someone to investigate, it doesn't make it prima facie bad.
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The flipside though is it doesn't make it good either. Why should I support something where the people who are in the know and think it is a positive thing seem to be unable to articulate it? Not to mention the dual parliament rubbish seems to epitomise the lack of interest in effeciency.
 
RDM said:
So come the next EU elections to make an informed decision the average voter needs to get a selection of commentaries and text books (which ones are suitable would also be a bit hard to work out as they would have no idea who is biased and who isn't) before casting their vote? I can see that working out well. :D
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Not at all. I mean that if people really do want to research this in depth, then they can. I doubt that most voters even read the policies of the parties they vote for to be honest,

Would make for a very dull discussion board as you would have a couple of posters only being able to post in everything but the most banal topics.
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I'm not saying that this should be an enforced rule, but it stops me from making unfounded and 'black is white' claims.

The flipside though is it doesn't make it good either. Why should I support something where the people who are in the know and think it is a positive thing seem to be unable to articulate it? Not to mention the dual parliament rubbish seems to epitomise the lack of interest in effeciency.
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It can be articulated, but not in a short or easily approachable way - it is quite a dry subject matter. Whether you wish to support the EU or not is personal choice, but I would encourage those who are sceptical not to be swayed by a highly misleading press.
 
Nitefly said:
It's always amusing when people claim to have a fundamental understanding of the EU, when they clearly don't.

So I'm going to take the possibly inflammatory step of saying unless you have at least studied law or possibly economics (I'm not sure on that one), then your understanding is probably bare bones, minimal and misleading.

Leaving the EU would be bafflingly stupid, don't vote UKIP.
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People are not really suggesting leaving the EU, people however are worried about the principles of the EU have changed from trade benefits to trying to create a one nation super state, with a president, an army etc.
 
What an embarassment this was. I watched it last night and it was churlish and cringeworthy. Whether true or not, do UKIP really consider that the President's appearance is of prime political importance to Europe?
 
Yeah I had to turn it off...I was going to give him a chance to explain himself but he just kept interrupting the Lib Dem lady and was really rude. Non-entity himself.
 
jakeke said:
What an idiot. He actually represents this country, what a massive embarrassment :(. How does this happen :(:(
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Some people are not happy with our main 3 parties, so vote for gonks like UKIP or even god forbid, the BNP, as will happen in the upcoming general election. Can you imagine more numpty's like him having a voice? *shudder*. :(
 
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