Kid in charge of air traffic

Burned_Alive said:
Wasnt this due to to a design flaw with the plane that was only highlighted, unfortunately, by this particular incident?
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Not really a flaw with the Airplane. The AP disengages automatically if you put pressure on the yoke, and it also gives an audible warning. The pilot should have known this.
 
scorza said:
OMG YOU USED ROLLEYES AT ME YOU'RE WORSE THAN HITLER!!!

ATC communication with the plane is all part of the safety critical chain, if something went wrong because the kid didn't repeat something quite right then people's lives would be put at risk. That is quite simply unacceptable, unless someone can point me at an approved CAA procedure which states that ATCs may direct non-trained controller communication with a plane?
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Please don't throw your toys out the pram, it's unbecoming :p

Have you bothered to either read my post or listen to the tapes???
As I stated the first time around, the planes are on the ground, moving at low speed (taxiing), hence the risk factor is low to start with, and there are multiple other safeguards in place to prevent any risks.


You're sounding just like the rest of the crowd of irrational health & safety nuts, who seem to think that people can't breathe without a training course an a full set of instructions (IRONY INTENDED!!!).
There are risks, and there are unacceptable risks, and far too many people these days seem to think that any risk is unnaceptable.

-Leezer-
 
Xenoxide said:
Yes. As long as the decisions are left in the hands of the parent and the child is just saying what his parent is telling him to.

That's all that happened here.
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You don't think it could have an impact on the outcome of the trial at all? The jury is definitely not going to be influenced by a child interrogating witnesses? The judge is going to laugh along when the child can't say a seven syllable word properly? All those public speaking skills that any barristers will excel at are a bit overrated then?
 
scorza said:
So the risk of using non-trained ATCs to communicate with the planes has been properly assessed and deemed to be acceptable?

The way people go on about ATCs in this forum anyone would think they were gods - they aren't they're human beings like you or I and therefore will make mistakes from time to time, which is why approved procedures are developed and must be followed in order to minimise that risk.
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All I'm saying is that as his father was there, who is a trained ATC and with the "low risk" ie there's no immediate risk , if the child did say something wrong the father could easily intervene and correct the child.

What happens when the ATC says something wrong? I bet they say it again correctly.
 
leezer3 said:
Please don't throw your toys out the pram, it's unbecoming :p

Have you bothered to either read my post or listen to the tapes???
As I stated the first time around, the planes are on the ground, moving at low speed (taxiing), hence the risk factor is low to start with, and there are multiple other safeguards in place to prevent any risks.


You're sounding just like the rest of the crowd of irrational health & safety nuts, who seem to think that people can't breathe without a training course an a full set of instructions (IRONY INTENDED!!!).
There are risks, and there are unacceptable risks, and far too many people these days seem to think that any risk is unnaceptable.

-Leezer-
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Oh if there are multiple safeguards it's alright then - ATC's can just pick and choose which of these safeguards they bother to use.

Health and Safety isn't an option in the airline industry, anyone who works in this industry and thinks otherwise should find themselves alternative employment.
 
scorza said:
So the risk of using non-trained ATCs to communicate with the planes has been properly assessed and deemed to be acceptable?

The way people go on about ATCs in this forum anyone would think they were gods - they aren't they're human beings like you or I and therefore will make mistakes from time to time, which is why approved procedures are developed and must be followed in order to minimise that risk.
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there are procedures for untrained people controlling under screened supervision, in my opinion this is arguably 'safer' than that, neither carry any real risks with the amount of safeguards and procedures in place to be honest.

Put your hands up if you work in ATC, keep them up if you think this compromised flight safety?

I doubt theres many more than 10 hands up initially, and doubt theres any left up at the end.
 
Tr Insanity said:
All I'm saying is that as his father was there, who is a trained ATC and with the "low risk" ie there's no immediate risk , if the child did say something wrong the father could easily intervene and correct the child.

What happens when the ATC says something wrong? I bet they say it again correctly.
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So there is a CAA approved procedure to let your kid speak on the radio? Phew, I'm glad the risk has been properly assessed and deemed to be acceptable by trained and authorised professionals.
 
Tr Insanity said:
All I'm saying is that as his father was there, who is a trained ATC and with the "low risk" ie there's no immediate risk , if the child did say something wrong the father could easily intervene and correct the child.

What happens when the ATC says something wrong? I bet they say it again correctly.
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spot on, and what happens when you get trainee controllers who are not being prompted as to what to say? they make something up and completely get it wrong..? their screening/supervising controller corrects them
 
peetee said:
there are procedures for untrained people controlling under screened supervision, in my opinion this is arguably 'safer' than that, neither carry any real risks with the amount of safeguards and procedures in place to be honest.
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Well as long as the procedures were followed there's no problem is there? Why has this ATC and his supervisor been suspended then? Personally I'm highly dubious that the set of "untrained people" who can control under supervision includes ATC's kids, but if I'm wrong I'll put my hands up and admit it.
 
scorza said:
So there is a CAA approved procedure to let your kid speak on the radio? Phew, I'm glad the risk has been properly assessed and deemed to be acceptable by trained and authorised professionals.
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True, it probably isn't the most acceptable thing to be doing in a workplace where a mistake could risk hundreds of people's lives, but under the circumstances, it sounds perfectly safe considering there's an ATC supervising the child.

I'm sure the father wouldn't have let his child speak if there was any doubt that it could be risky and besides none of the pilots in the report seemed to mind, he spoke clearly and professionally. If that recording was played and his voice wasn't high pitched (:p) would you notice the difference between him and a ATC ? I highly doubt it.
 
Heard about this last week on all the flying forums... knew it would be all over the media.. the controllers are sure gonna hate liveatc!

asim18 said:
Not really a flaw with the Airplane. The AP disengages automatically if you put pressure on the yoke, and it also gives an audible warning. The pilot should have known this.
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There was no audio warning when the autopilot had been disconnected.

Does Scorza write for the DailyFail... seriously? And can someone ban him plz.
 
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