V-Sync Causes mouse lag? (5970)

[Toilet-Duck]

I've double checked the difference with my old PC and its no where near as bad as my 8800GTS, so I'm guessing its either a driver problem, faulty card (doubtful?) or CPU problem?

The screen is exactly the same as before, any ideas?

The delay is so bad (around 1second) that I cant seem to have vsync turned as I cant aim! But then the tearing looks terrible on screen, as I said it doesn't happen on my previous system when vsync is on...

 

[stooeh]

I've double checked the difference with my old PC and its no where near as bad as my 8800GTS, so I'm guessing its either a driver problem, faulty card (doubtful?) or CPU problem?

The screen is exactly the same as before, any ideas?

The delay is so bad (around 1second) that I cant seem to have vsync turned as I cant aim! But then the tearing looks terrible on screen, as I said it doesn't happen on my previous system when vsync is on...

It's possible that additional delay is being caused since you are using a dual GPU card. Currently I have a GTX 295 and it certainly feels like there is a lot of delay when vysnc is on. My old 8800GT still had lag with vysnc on though.

 

[crinkleshoes]

Show me one console game that runs at 60fps that has the very slightest of judder? It doesn't cos it's at the PINNACLE. Get a CRT, leave vsync off run it at whatever max fps your card can throw at it, then do it again with vsync on and guess what no difference.

lol... if you're eyes can tell the difference, then it's NOT the pinnacle... lmao

There's a VERY noticeable difference between 60Hz and 200Hz plasmas... and that's coming from the same 24/30/60fps source... let alone gaming where the difference would be even more noticeable.

Ok... you could well have worse eyes than the rest of us... but that doesn't mean that others don't notice

And no... that isn't a personal attack or anything, just a possibility. It could just be as simple as you simply don't notice...

 

[mmj_uk]

It's possible that additional delay is being caused since you are using a dual GPU card. Currently I have a GTX 295 and it certainly feels like there is a lot of delay when vysnc is on. My old 8800GT still had lag with vysnc on though.

I've suggested already he try with 1 GPU disabled then if it is that you could return the 5970 for a 5870 if it bothers you that much, I'm not sure why people need 5970 anway.

 

[thedoc46]

lol... if you're eyes can tell the difference, then it's NOT the pinnacle... lmao

There's a VERY noticeable difference between 60Hz and 200Hz plasmas... and that's coming from the same 24/30/60fps source... let alone gaming where the difference would be even more noticeable.

Ok... you could well have worse eyes than the rest of us... but that doesn't mean that others don't notice

And no... that isn't a personal attack or anything, just a possibility. It could just be as simple as you simply don't notice...

whatever.. Take Wipeout on the ps3 that is locked at 60fps.. So you reckon if that was running at 200fps it would be smoother?

Anything below 60fps yes, but above NO

 

[thedoc46]

lol... if you're eyes can tell the difference, then it's NOT the pinnacle... lmao

There's a VERY noticeable difference between 60Hz and 200Hz plasmas... and that's coming from the same 24/30/60fps source... let alone gaming where the difference would be even more noticeable.

Ok... you could well have worse eyes than the rest of us... but that doesn't mean that others don't notice

And no... that isn't a personal attack or anything, just a possibility. It could just be as simple as you simply don't notice...

don't confuse digital trickery and marketing crap with FPS.

 

[crinkleshoes]

whatever.. Take Wipeout on the ps3 that is locked at 60fps.. So you reckon if that was running at 200fps it would be smoother?

Anything below 60fps yes, but above NO

Ok, you're obviously blind... you go be happy with 60fps & we'll all wish for more

60fps is only the "smoothest you can get" at the minute because practically all monitors are limited to 60Hz... simples

Have you even seen monitors that can display more than 60fps? My guess is no... don't talk bull**** til you know what you're on about...

 

[thedoc46]

Ok, you're obviously blind... you go be happy with 60fps & we'll all wish for more

60fps is only the "smoothest you can get" at the minute because practically all monitors are limited to 60Hz... simples

Have you even seen monitors that can display more than 60fps? My guess is no... don't talk bull**** til you know what you're on about...

Why am i even arguing with you? ok I'll enjoy my silky smooth 60fps and you go enjoy your 200fps tearing like a &%^^& and what are you saying? all monitors are limited to 60hz? Perhaps you are too young to remeber CRT's?

Graphics cards have always been able to render frames at more than the frequency of the monitor / tv.. It's just that THEY'VE NEVER NEEDED TOO outside of benchmarking, there really is no need. (ok so there is an argument with regards to the original post re the old mouse lag chestnut ) However what you are saying is comical.

So please before you go blabbing about crap you know nothing about, you should learn a little more about frame rates frequencies & what the movie, game & TV industries know a lot more about than you.

 

[Rroff]

I'm sorry but your talking crap... sure 60fps is smooth and good enough for all intents and purposes... but I'm sitting here with a top of the line (for gaming) 60Hz panel right next to a good 120Hz panel and the 120Hz one is much more responsive and smooth for gaming. To say that 60Hz is the pinnacle is rubbish or that there is no difference/advantage is also rubbish.

http://aten-hosted.com/images/desk10.jpg

 

[crinkleshoes]

I have no idea why you've started an argument about something you have no knowledge of... but that's your problem, not mine...

... it would only tear @ 200Hz/fps if the monitor couldn't keep up with the frame rate :S

You even missed the word "practically"... it is true that the majority of consumer screens being used at the minute are 60Hz (50 if we're talking about uk PAL tvs)... so why are you trying to make an argument out of this too? lol!

I'm talking about 200fps on a 200hz screen, vs 60fps on a 60Hz screen... or does your eyesight not help your literacy?

For one, it's simple maths... an input will be represented quicker on screen on a 200hz/fps config than a 60hz/fps config = more responsive

It'll also be able to render the bits of motion between the frames of something at 60Hz/fps making things appear smoother.

Go have a look at something to compare instead of spouting crap it's obvious you know nothing about.

Who's talking about need...? Want... Of course 60fps is acceptible... but 120fps is better if you have a monitor that can benefit from it

From what you say at the bottom... does that mean you really can't tell the difference between a 24fps movie and a 60fps game? 24fps is fine for a movie... but you would never want to play an fps/racing game at that frame rate, even if it was a perfectly constant 24fps... you could probably manage with the likes of an RTS though...

 

[forest4]

Show me one console game that runs at 60fps that has the very slightest of judder? It doesn't cos it's at the PINNACLE. Get a CRT, leave vsync off run it at whatever max fps your card can throw at it, then do it again with vsync on and guess what no difference.

If anyone reading this remembers reading the "Losing Patience with FERMI" Thread that I made awile back, they will know I am old school. I only use a trackball mouse, and a CRT monitor. I HATE mouse acceleration. This useless new feature is fairly common amongst many new games, and it makes them hard to play, and hard to aim and look around, what with the lag on the mouse look. In Far Cry 2 the mouse lag is so bad that I only play with my XB360 controller for windows, as I can not cope with the mouse lag from mouse acceleration.
If you want to blame anything for mouse lag, your first suspect should always be mouse acceleration. Disable it right away when setting up your controlls in a new game and you will have a much more fun experience. Since I use a CRT and a trackball mouse, enabling V-sync does not do anything to affect my frame per second in games.
I hope software developers start to look at mouse acceleration the same way I look are it: with hate. If I want to look to the right and shoot an enemy who is standing there in 0.001 seconds, that I what I want to actually happen! Lag free!

IMO mouse acceleration is to blame. Unfortunately, like in Far Cry 2, there might be no way to disable it. Your 1000 Euro PC might be junk.

 

[thedoc46]

I'm sorry but your talking crap... sure 60fps is smooth and good enough for all intents and purposes... but I'm sitting here with a top of the line (for gaming) 60Hz panel right next to a good 120Hz panel and the 120Hz one is much more responsive and smooth for gaming. To say that 60Hz is the pinnacle is rubbish or that there is no difference/advantage is also rubbish.

http://aten-hosted.com/images/desk10.jpg

Yes I agree all the experts and i are talking crap

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6792632-1.html

 

[Rroff]

Yes I agree all the experts and i are talking crap

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6792632-1.html

Does help if you know what your talking about... that article is on 120Hz TVs which don't accept a 120 frame/s signal in the first place 60 max... many only take a ~25fps signal from a DVD player, etc. they then upsample to 120Hz. Thats nothing like a 120Hz monitor which can take a pure 120fps signal.

 

[thedoc46]

I have no idea why you've started an argument about something you have no knowledge of... but that's your problem, not mine...

... it would only tear @ 200Hz/fps if the monitor couldn't keep up with the frame rate :S

You even missed the word "practically"... it is true that the majority of consumer screens being used at the minute are 60Hz (50 if we're talking about uk PAL tvs)... so why are you trying to make an argument out of this too? lol!

I'm talking about 200fps on a 200hz screen, vs 60fps on a 60Hz screen... or does your eyesight not help your literacy?

For one, it's simple maths... an input will be represented quicker on screen on a 200hz/fps config than a 60hz/fps config = more responsive

It'll also be able to render the bits of motion between the frames of something at 60Hz/fps making things appear smoother.

Go have a look at something to compare instead of spouting crap it's obvious you know nothing about.

Who's talking about need...? Want... Of course 60fps is acceptible... but 120fps is better if you have a monitor that can benefit from it

From what you say at the bottom... does that mean you really can't tell the difference between a 24fps movie and a 60fps game? 24fps is fine for a movie... but you would never want to play an fps/racing game at that frame rate, even if it was a perfectly constant 24fps... you could probably manage with the likes of an RTS though...

Yawn. Sorry you were saying?

 

[thedoc46]

200hz screen? ok mate ... Sold to the dumbest bidder. Go enjoy.

 

[thedoc46]

Does help if you know what your talking about... that article is on 120Hz TVs which don't accept a 120 frame/s signal in the first place 60 max... many only take a ~25fps signal from a DVD player, etc. they then upsample to 120Hz. Thats nothing like a 120Hz monitor which can take a pure 120fps signal.

Yes I agree. (technicaly) But for 99% of people out there it really would not make much difference.

 

[crinkleshoes]

Does help if you know what your talking about... that article is on 120Hz TVs which don't accept a 120 frame/s signal in the first place 60 max... many only take a ~25fps signal from a DVD player, etc. they then upsample to 120Hz. Thats nothing like a 120Hz monitor which can take a pure 120fps signal.

lol! pwned...

 

[Rroff]

For someone whos only ever plays games casually or never used a PC before they would never notice... for someone like myself whos got a decade of FPS gaming behind them the difference is like night and day.

 

[forest4]

To the thread maker:
Do you have a CRT monitor handy? Try it with your PC and see if the problem persists.

 

[thedoc46]

For someone whos only ever plays games casually or never used a PC before they would never notice... for someone like myself whos got a decade of FPS gaming behind them the difference is like night and day.

Well I'll agree with you to end this argument. Though only if we are talking about on an LCD. I do not think 120hz makes a blind bit of difference on a plasma or CRT. Only LCD's seem to have an issue with motion, in which 120hz supposedly helps it. But I don't see how turning off vsync on a 60hz LCD can help that, but I've not had the luxury of owning a 120hz LCD, so you will know better than i on that.

And to Crinkle or whatever your name is? Most 120hz is marketed towards people that want to reduce the slight judder in 24fps film, which is not as the director intended, otherwise we'd all be watching movies at the cinema in 60fps. Or you in 200fps...