The all encompassing BNP thread - keep all crap in here.

[SlugForAButt]

+1

 

[rypt]

No, we're saying they don't have the right to have a membership policy that requires a commitment to racial discrimination, that's not quite the same thing.

Other organisations are allowed such a policy, for religious or other grounds though.
For instance, you cannot be a CoE clergyman while being Muslim at the same time.

 

[RDM]

That stems from a lack of education more than anything. If it was possible to give everyone a proper understanding of these situations then the world would be a better place.

No, it stems from the fact that the economic benefit of immigration does not filter through to the entire community and for some the benefits are far outweighed by the negatives. If you are a low paid manual worker the benefits of immigration are quite limited yet the disadvantages are quite extensive. This needs to be recognised and addressed. Seriously what benefits are you going to see from immigration if you are a low paid manual worker that are not massively outweighed by the disadvantages?

 

[Biohazard]

Or try using a good dictionary like Cambridge;

obtuse stupid and slow to understand, OR unwilling to try to understand

obtuse stupid and slow to understand, OR unwilling to try to understand

Meaning intentionally being difficult. Stop getting into semantics if you don't have good sources.

So your playing a game of semantics when your source comes to the exact same conclusion as me, the word is primarily used to firstly describe a person as stupid.

Yeah, I can really see how your source won that one!

 

[Biohazard]

You lacked perception, observation and sensitivity.

Of course I did.

 

[Dolph]

@Dolph, don't forget that one of the main reasons our pension funds are in such a mess is because Gordon Brown let companys take a pension holiday, because there was so much money in the coffers at the time.

The fact that people would live longer and that there would be less people paying in wasn't taken into account. It was extremely short sighted.

I was talking about the state (and some public sector) pensions, that are entirely unfunded and therefore taken from current taxation.

And it wasn't Brown that created the pension holiday (that was done under the Tories), it was Brown who did a smash and grab tax raid in his first budget... Both of these were bad.

 

[Dolph]

Other organisations are allowed such a policy, for religious or other grounds though.
For instance, you cannot be a CoE clergyman while being Muslim at the same time.

How is that a commitment to racial discrimination?

 

[Dolph]

There are plenty of 2nd and 3rd generation unemployed that we seem happy to pay and support for doing nothing, just seems wrong to me.

The fact that our welfare system needs reform has no bearing on immigration reform.

 

[Biohazard]

I was talking about the state (and some public sector) pensions, that are entirely unfunded and therefore taken from current taxation.

Entirely unfunded?

Care to expand on that any?

 

[Biohazard]

While your looking at the dictionary go find the definition for indigenous, it is a fairly subjective term (Native Americans are only indigenous because they were 'there' when 'we' first arrived). Probably wise to brush up on your tenses too.

I wasn't the person who introduced the word into the thread, so I don't see why I should.

Again, unless you want to be the pendant too? Because, you knew what DD meant and I knew what you meant.. but you in turn?

 

[Dolph]

Entirely unfunded?

Care to expand on that any?

The money we pay towards 'our' state pension now isn't actually invested, but used to pay the current recipients of the state pension. The taxpayers at the time when we reach pensionable age will be funding our state pensions directly unless things change dramatically.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_compendia/pensiontrends/PTchapter14final.pdf

See page 9.

 

[RDM]

Are you saying that the disadvantages you listed are solely caused by immigration?

No, but they are significantly impacted by immigration in some areas. Can you think of any significant advantages to immigration for the low paid manual worker that outweigh the disadvantages?

 

[PermaBanned]

But you're still missing the point. We're all immigrants. The only separation between us are boundaries set up by an archaic flag planting system, effectively. If they can come over here and do our jobs better than we can for less money then frankly we don't deserve to have such a better quality of life than they would in their home country.

 

[RDM]

But you're still missing the point. We're all immigrants. The only separation between us are boundaries set up by an archaic flag planting system, effectively. If they can come over here and do our jobs better than we can for less money then frankly we don't deserve to have such a better quality of life than they would in their home country.

So effectively you are saying that the low paid manual worker can go hang for all you care? What an interesting socialist attitude that is.

 

[rypt]

How is that a commitment to racial discrimination?

It is religious discrimination, which is still discrimination.

 

[Dolph]

It is religious discrimination, which is still discrimination.

And a completely separate piece of legislation to the one the BNP were in breach of...

 

[RDM]

To say that immigration only negatively affects your token low skilled employee is a little ludicrous.

About as ludicrous as saying that immigration benefits the person? Not to mention at no point did I say that it was only negative but more that the negatives significantly outweigh the positives for some parts of society. Ignoring that and championing the economic benefits is a very good way of ensuring continued support for parties such as the BNP.