I'd classify them as Group A rally homologation specials. Problem is ... how do you justify letting in the modern 200bhp hot hatches if you've thrown them out...
The Best Hot Hatch Ever
- Thread starter mjt
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I'd classify them as Group A rally homologation specials. Problem is ... how do you justify letting in the modern 200bhp hot hatches if you've thrown them out...
Soldato
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I think you can throw them out as they feel kind of numb compared to 80's hot hatches, they are heavier, quieter, smoother etc compared to the rawness of the original hot hatches.
Soldato
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I think the ST170 warrants being the best hot hatch ever. It was one of the best handling and most powerful cars in its class of its time. The Focus's mk1 RS and mk2 ST and RSs success is partly owed to the ST170. Early designs of the RevoKnuckle technology that you see today are evident in the ST170. Call them some "prototypes" if you will. Couple that with an excellent chassis, independent rear suspension and a large family cabin and you have a brilliant car.
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Not on the list ...
No no no and no!
It needs to be light, very light, sharper than a sharp thing and noisy. THAT is what hot hatches were all about, no large family cabins!
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IMO a 'hot hatch' is not a 4 WD car.
Soldato
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It was always underpowered
I'm also pretty sure that apart from the engine, tighter steering rack and lower suspension, a few extras etc it was exactly the same as the zetec.I'd go along with the 205 GTi or Golf GTi, without personal experience of either, however they pretty much defined the genre. I'd cite price as a key factor too, it has to be affordable. The Escort Cosworth and Delta were not affordable at the time, if you went for an Escort of the era it would have to be the GTi, RS2000 or similar, which is junk.
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This.
And this were my first two thoughts. Rally cars =/= hot hatches. Next the latest Impreza will be on the list!
Soldato
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CRX VTEC or even the D16 variant.
Both have serious power to weight and double wishbone suspension up front with semi independant rear. Never really seems to make ground in these sort of comparisons compared to the euro offerings though.
Both have serious power to weight and double wishbone suspension up front with semi independant rear. Never really seems to make ground in these sort of comparisons compared to the euro offerings though.
Soldato
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It was always underpowered
Granted it didn't have brute power, but it made up for that in other areas. And the sales more than proved this. For a lot of people it was an ideal compromise between practicality and performance
I did think that cars like the Integrale, Escort Cossie, Evo and Imprezza were "rally replicas", and therefore a step above hot hatches in both technology and cost.
Here's my nomination:
That's an AE82 Corolla GT twin cam. Shares a 1.6ltr engine with the mk1 MR2 and AE86.
122hp might not seem a lot now, but back then it was enough to make it competitive with the 205 GTi and Golf GTi mk2 16v. It was pretty much VTEC prior to Honda making it common with a rev limiter at 7800rpm.
The key other elements were non-PAS (so some really steering feel), light weight (lighter than the MR2 or AE86).
For reference, my comparison of cars that I prefered driving to includes 205 (1.6 & 1.9), XR3i, Golf GTi (16v and 8v), Renault 5GTT.
I know that the newer hot hatches like the Clio 182 and CTR would be massively faster, but they simply aern't as raw or as fun to drive.
Here's my nomination:
That's an AE82 Corolla GT twin cam. Shares a 1.6ltr engine with the mk1 MR2 and AE86.
122hp might not seem a lot now, but back then it was enough to make it competitive with the 205 GTi and Golf GTi mk2 16v. It was pretty much VTEC prior to Honda making it common with a rev limiter at 7800rpm.
The key other elements were non-PAS (so some really steering feel), light weight (lighter than the MR2 or AE86).
For reference, my comparison of cars that I prefered driving to includes 205 (1.6 & 1.9), XR3i, Golf GTi (16v and 8v), Renault 5GTT.
I know that the newer hot hatches like the Clio 182 and CTR would be massively faster, but they simply aern't as raw or as fun to drive.
So the leading attributes of a hot hatch should be the compromise between practicality and performance? Odd
Soldato
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Too much of a compromise IMO. It sold well because your everday guy thought it was fast and it was well priced. I'm not saying it's not a good car, and second hand they make great buys. I own a Focus 2.0 and while it has great handling in it's segment, any Focus is nowhere near contesting for best hot hatch EVER now is it
Even the RS models would be usurped by the Escort Cosworth IMO, simply due to the performance relative to the time, that it's an icon, racing pedigree, poster car etc etc
I'd say so, otherwise you'd buy a 2dr coupe. It needs to be practical in that it can take a family (ie have 5 seats) and shopping, but that's it. The R26.R should be out, because it's not really a hot hatch, more a track car.
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Soldato
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Well yes. Why wouldn't it be?
That's the point of a hot hatch, you can use it to to ferry a small family whilst delivering reasonable amount of power.
