Poll: The Last Leaders Debate – Live tonight at 2030 BST on BBC One

Who will you vote for?

  • Labour

    Votes: 67 11.8%

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 231 40.7%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 227 40.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 42 7.4%
  • Total voters
    567
  • Poll closed .
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AcidHell2 said:
No one is going to solve that, unless we pull out of the EU. Labour signed the deal and that's that.
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Cameron and the Tory party generally are definitely guilty of overselling what their proposals will do. I heard mention again last night of bringing immigration down to the 10's of thousands, knowing full well that if 200,000 eastern europeans decide to come to the UK there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
Also how is an adjustable cap different from a points based system that only allows people in when they have skills that are required? In practice they are likely to result in the same thing, unless the Tories find they need to raise the cap but for political reasons can't and it'll be business that suffers. They are potentially hamstringing themselves with their own proposal.
 
semi-pro waster said:
In which case it's disingenuous for Mr Cameron to tout it as a panacea to the complaints about immigration. For the most part I've got few problems with immigration but I do have some fairly significant gripes with people misrepresenting the position and suggesting they've got a solution when they don't.
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when parties are talking about immigration it is no EU members. It's not really misrepresenting. If you look at the policies is says non eu. As Cameron (pretty sure all 3 of them did) said several times in eh debate as well.
 
semi-pro waster said:
Which is fine for non-EU immigration, what about all the immigrants from within the EU?
.
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The Statistics Commission state that 68% of immigrants into this country since 2002 have been from non EU Countries.


Telegraph 2008:

Earlier this year the Home Office faced criticism after saying that immigration from outside the EU was no more than 52 per cent. That figure has been regularly used as evidence that any annual cap on migrants would not have a large effect.
But the Statistics Commission later backed analysis from think tank Migrationwatch that the figure was in fact 68 per cent.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...f-migrants-into-the-UK-set-to-hit-200000.html


http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/

Nick Cleggs claim of 80% from the EU is false: only 20% are from the 15 EU countries that have no restrictions placed on them. Cameron also mentioned transitional controls to apply to all new members including those currently subject to controlled immigration.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=15053

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/LSELondon/pdf/irregular migrants full report.pdf
 
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I went to a local election forum last night where all the candidates were asked questions on a variety of broad subjects by the people in the audience.

I must say that most of the candidates there are completely unelectable. It's a real eye opener when you hear the debating and vocal coherency skills of a prospective candidate!.

So now I'm torn between voting for the party I'm most aligned to (Conservatives) or the candidate I think will do the best job for my consituency even if I don't agree with their parties policies! (Bob Ainsworth (Labour) or Dave Nellist (Sociallist Alliance))

Bah.....
 
Gaidin109 said:
The Statistics Commission state that 68% of immigrants into this country since 2002 have been from non EU Countries.


Telegraph 2008:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...f-migrants-into-the-UK-set-to-hit-200000.html


http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/

Nick Cleggs claim of 80% from the EU is false: only 20% are from the 15 EU countries that have no restrictions placed on them. Cameron also mentioned transitional controls to apply to all new members including those currently subject to controlled immigration.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=15053

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/LSELondon/pdf/irregular migrants full report.pdf
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Trying to summarise any of these figures is a fiddle, net EU migration for example ignores the demographics of those migrating, people leaving the job market and retiring into Europe are counted against young people coming to the UK to work. The 80% figure that Nick Clegg used is meant to be from an Economist report specifically looking at immigration as it relates to workers.
 
bam0 said:
Trying to summarise any of these figures is a fiddle, net EU migration for example ignores the demographics of those migrating, people leaving the job market and retiring into Europe are counted against young people coming to the UK to work. The 80% figure that Nick Clegg used is meant to be from an Economist report specifically looking at immigration as it relates to workers.
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Funny how his statement was "80% of immigrants into the UK are from the EU".

Migrationwatch disagree with him, going so far as to say his claim is false. As you have not given any source information to back up your claim or the veracity of it, your statement has no credibilty. I would like to see that report before I believe what Clegg states as truth, especially as various other sources which I included disagree.

http://fullfact.org/articles/?catid=&id=56&sel=articlelist


Comparing the efficacy of the parties’ proposed measures on immigration Mr Clegg claimed that: “80 per cent of immigrants come from the European Union.”

Verdict: not true.

Mr Clegg was involved with testy exchanges with Mr Cameron on immigration. In an attack on the Conservative leader he said introducing a cap on immigration wouldn’t stem numbers. He argued that the vast majority of immigrants come from inside the European Union where freedom of movement is enshrined in legislation.

Mr Clegg demanded that the Tory leader answer yes or no to the claim.

The latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures show that just 38 per cent of migrants came from the European Union in 2008. Out of a total of 590,000 immigrants into Britain only 224,000 were from the EU.

In the same year, 33 per cent came from Commonwealth countries and 29 per cent came from other foreign countries.

Teresa May, Conservative Work and Pensions spokesperson, derisively referred to the 80 per cent as ‘Clegg figures’.

Mr Clegg certainly looks to have some explaining to do.
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Hatter The Mad said:
Oh Cleggy...

Trying to hide his policy for an amnesty for 600,000 illegal immigrants
· Nick Clegg tries to hide his amnesty policy. ‘I'm not advocating an amnesty…’
· But Nick Clegg has previously called his policy a ‘selective amnesty’. ‘And most controversially in our proposals…also establishing a selective amnesty, if you like, a route to earned legalisation for the up to 600,000 people who have being living in this country invisibly, illegally, often exploited by unscrupulous employers and others.’ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/video/2007/sep/18/nick.clegg, approximately one minute into video)
· And his manifesto promises illegal immigrants an amnesty. ‘We will allow people who have been in Britain without the correct papers for ten years… live here long-term to earn their citizenship.’ (Liberal Democrat Manifesto 2010, page 76)
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There already exists an 'amnesty' for illegal immigrants in the UK, except at the moment it's 14 years instead of 10. This policy is not as 'out there' as a lot of people seem to think it is. Got very annoyed by browny and davo on that one.
 
drizzy said:
There already exists an 'amnesty' for illegal immigrants in the UK, except at the moment it's 14 years instead of 10. This policy is not as 'out there' as a lot of people seem to think it is. Got very annoyed by browny and davo on that one.
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Close but no cigar.

Indefinite leave to remain != right of abode. For instance, should they leave for a period of time, they're not welcome back etc. It's pseduo-British.

I appreciate they're closely related but from an immigration point of view, Clegg/Gordo/Dave were accurate in what they were all say. Just different policies.

(E&OE)
 
I wrongly assumed that after 14 years illegal and 1 year of ILR they'd be eligible for citizenship which would be a total of 15 years to citizen. It appears that it'd take 5 years of ILR (due to citizenship requiring 5 years residence legally) - so 19 years :o

From memory after ILR you can be out of the country for up to two years so it's reasonably flexible - 2.5 years till I qualify! :)
 
drizzy said:
I wrongly assumed that after 14 years illegal and 1 year of ILR they'd be eligible for citizenship which would be a total of 15 years to citizen. It appears that it'd take 5 years of ILR (due to citizenship requiring 5 years residence legally) - so 19 years :o

From memory after ILR you can be out of the country for up to two years so it's reasonably flexible - 2.5 years till I qualify! :)
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The whole thing is a minefield really, the immigration laws are unclear and seem lapse in places, overly strict in others.

I think Tory/LibDem are needed purely to straighten things out (whichever way +/-).

I was, however, surprised to learn 1/10th of people living in the UK (and US incidentally) weren't born (t)here. That seems very high, historically (no negativity is attached to this statement).
 
Agreed.

In comparison, where I'm from: "According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, in mid-2006 there were 4,956,863 residents who were born outside Australia, representing 24% of the total population." :)
 
meghatronic said:
Indeed. I canceleld my paper and deleted the bookmark. Shame, was one of my favourites.
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The Guardian advocating a Lib Dem vote will help get the Tories in, surely?

Also, The Guardian is a very, exceptionally good paper. Are you going to cut your nose of to spite your face because of one article that says... "If the Guardian was voting, we'd vote Lib Dem"?

Do you never read anything that does not fully pertain to your existing views and prejudices? Is that healthy?
 
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