Poll: The Last Leaders Debate – Live tonight at 2030 BST on BBC One

[campbell]

Actually, this is the latest Conservative election broadcast which, in my opinion, is great

ZZZZZ

Id rather watch the labour broadcasts.

 

[Slam62]

Those are your thoughts and I respect them. However you must realise that trade unions founded the Labour Party so this is why it receives funding in this way. Like any important demographic, they need to maintain a stake in a political party. There would be no sense in lobbying other parties with union funds as their interests are mutually exclusive to the major stakeholders (ie. corporations, wealthy individuals) in other parties such as the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats.

you see this is an example of what is wrong with our current attitudes. The interests of workers are directly tied to the interests of the business and vice versa. It is in the interests of both parties to work together.

I fear we have recently drifted back into the old us and them approach due to the financial squeeze that has occurred.

German industry in particular seems to flourish by having a good union/company relationship. Although in america, it seems to have done the opposite.

 

[campbell]

Quite entertaining article in the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/e...rvative-voters-hate-it.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Do you get the sense he doesn't like Cameron?

Any journalist beginning an article with the heading 'This is the most important article I’ve ever written' loses all respect from me in a matter of seconds.

Aww the classy daily mail.

 

[scorza]

A truly moving moment on BBC news when a young girl broke down in tears on stage that her family can't afford even the basics in life on their low, civil servant's wages. The sad thing is it's people like her who will really suffer under a Conservative government, Labour might have many faults but at least they imposed a minimum wage.

Found a link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/03/gordon-brown-citizensuk-leadership-debate

When Demosthenes spoke to the crowds in ancient Greece and people turned to each other, they said: 'Let's march.' Let's march for justice, dignity and fairness. That's what we have all got to march for, and let's march for it together.

I agree with the sentiment Gordon but you've had three years to do some of that and haven't

 

[Slam62]

We've been at this same (massively indebted economy and damaged society) three times in the last 60 years... The problem that causes it is not the electoral system, but one of the parties within it.

um but if they hadn't been elected with absolute power, it probably wouldn't have happened.

 

[scorza]

Any journalist beginning an article with the heading 'This is the most important article I’ve ever written' loses all respect from me in a matter of seconds.

Aww the classy daily mail.

He's not a journalist, he's a columnist. What's remarkable is that even the most Conservative newspaper going can't find columnists to make the argument for Cameron.

 

[Floogie]

Unite do it, and they dwarf all other individual donators to any political party.

Rightly so considering how many people they represent.

We need political funding reform and further reform of the union movement.

Political funding reform is a shameful attempt at killing Labour from behind. Also, unions are 'reformed' enough I think.

 

[Rich_L]

I read that yesterday and found it funny. Peter Hitchens complaining that Cameron isn't fascist enough for him...

Absolutely, it's almost a tacit endorsement of Cameron's work with the Tory party that Peter Hitchens hates him

 

[Dolph]

A truly moving moment on BBC news when a young girl broke down in tears on stage that her family can't afford even the basics in life on their low, civil servant's wages. The sad thing is it's people like her who will really suffer under a Conservative government, Labour might have many faults but at least they imposed a minimum wage.

A much sadder thing is that you both fell for it and assume that her job has value...

 

[Floogie]

you see this is an example of what is wrong with our current attitudes. The interests of workers are directly tied to the interests of the business and vice versa. It is in the interests of both parties to work together.

I agree this is the ideal scenario. However the frequent reality seems to be without a suitable counterweight like a union, there would be no requirement for the employer to work together with you.

I fear we have recently drifted back into the old us and them approach due to the financial squeeze that has occurred.

I dont think it ever went. There will always be the the 'haves' and 'have nots'.

 

[Dolph]

Rightly so considering how many people they represent.

Or alternatively how many people they bully into membership and bully into contributing...

Political funding reform is a shameful attempt at killing Labour from behind. Also, unions are 'reformed' enough I think.

Unions are not reformed enough, as the behaviour of Unite at BA clearly shows. If they won't reform, then simple removal of their exemption from liability for consequences is a fair approach.

As for political funding, it was Labour that kicked up such a stink about Ashcroft, despite them being far more dependent on Unite than the Tories are on ashcroft. People in glass houses and all that.

 

[scorza]

A much sadder thing is that you both fell for it and assume that her job has value...

She's a 14 year old girl, so she doesn't have a job.

 

[scorza]

As for political funding, it was Labour that kicked up such a stink about Ashcroft, despite them being far more dependent on Unite than the Tories are on ashcroft. People in glass houses and all that.

The stink about Ashcroft isn't that the Conservatives are dependent on him, it's because he's a tax cheat who has been made a Lord, and therefore has a massive say in the running of a country he doesn't pay his fair share of tax toward - all with the blessing of Conservative Party HQ.

 

[Dolph]

She's a 14 year old girl, so she doesn't have a job.

So it was a basic appeal to emotion that ignored the fact that her parents were obviously squandering their wages on pointless crap then? Because civil servants aren't that badly paid.

 

[Dolph]

The stink about Ashcroft isn't that the Conservatives are dependent on him, it's because he's a tax cheat who has been made a Lord, and therefore has a massive say in the running of a country he doesn't pay his fair share of tax toward - all with the blessing of Conservative Party HQ.

A non-dom donor like Lord Paul?

Do unions pay corporation tax and so on, because they certainly run like businesses in the vast majority of cases? Does that make them tax dodgers, or just cagey in their use of exemptions?

Where is the controversy about the donations to the labour party in exchange for 'union modernisation' funding from central government?

 

[Rich_L]

Interesting polling article in the Telegraph - the actual polling report has some interesting questions in it too which aren't reported.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ele...0-David-Cameron-needs-just-14-more-seats.html

Voter turnout is now at its highest level recorded by C|T polls; 75% of UK adults report that they are definitely (10/10) likely to vote.

And in the event of a hung Parliament and LDs requiring a referendum on electoral reform

Opinions of electoral reform are split; 36% would prefer to keep the current system, 28% prefer PR and 36% are undecided or don’t have enough information.

However, a majority (63%) support a referendum on the issue:

This is true of all party voting groups; 61% Labour, 63% Conservative and 72% Lib
Dem. Even 57% of those preferring to keep the current system support a referendum on
the issue.

 

[Floogie]

Or alternatively how many people they bully into membership and bully into contributing...

How widespread is this? I've never ever spoken to anyone who has experienced it. Is this just an unsubstantiated claim? I would wager this is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of bullying received from the employer.

Unions are not reformed enough, as the behaviour of Unite at BA clearly shows. If they won't reform, then simple removal of their exemption from liability for consequences is a fair approach.

Putting aside the fact you think the above single episode justifies reform. What consquences exactly do you want them to be exposed to?

As for political funding, it was Labour that kicked up such a stink about Ashcroft, despite them being far more dependent on Unite than the Tories are on ashcroft. People in glass houses and all that.

Not glass houses at all. Ashcroft's scenario is totally different to that of Unite. Ultimately, I think the difference between you and I is that you see Unite as a single funding body. I do not.

EDIT: I meant "representative of one body", not "single funding body".

 

[Gaidin109]

Not glass houses at all. Ashcroft's scenario is totally different to that of Unite. Ultimately, I think the difference between you and I is that you Unite as a single funding body. I do not.

The Ashcroft scenario may be different from that of Unite, but it is similar to other Non-Doms like Lord Paul who support Labour, and others who support the Liberal Democrats.

Unite is a single funding body, it's members pay the same union fee regardless of whether they opt in or out of the Political fund, for the ones who opt out, the percentage of their contribution that would gave gone to fund Labour, just funds other political activities on behalf of the Union itself.

A Union is a single united body of it's members, that's why it's called a union.

 

[Dolph]

How widespread is this? I've never ever spoken to anyone who has experienced it. Is this just an unsubstantiated claim? I would wager this is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of bullying received from the employer.

The history of the union movement is full of examples of violence and intimidation towards non-members or members who refuse to to the line (see the term 'scab' as an example)

Putting aside the fact you think the above single episode justifies reform. What consquences exactly do you want them to be exposed to?

I'd like to see all strike action subject to a reasonableness test, and the party (employer or union) deemed to be acting unreasonably be responsible for paying compensation to all the third parties damaged by the action. That's only anti-union if you think unions frequently act unreasonably

Not glass houses at all. Ashcroft's scenario is totally different to that of Unite. Ultimately, I think the difference between you and I is that you Unite as a single funding body. I do not.

They are a single funding body. If individuals want to donate to a political party, they can do so without any trade union interaction.

They should, therefore, be treated as any other individual political donor is treated, and any restrictions that apply to individual donors (be they private, corporate, charity or union) must be applied equally.

 

[Lightnix]

Tell you what, I certainly don't want to vote for the BNP after reading its manifesto tripe!

I mean I could stand the xenophobic nonsense, and the talk about a 200MPH maglev network might be a bit out of reach but was pretty cool, however this... This is sick:

Television should strive to depict improved standards of conduct rather than reducing
much within its remit to the lowest common denominator.
Often, the media portrays the white working class in the most negative, unattractive
and unacceptable light. This practice must stop.

So there goes most American animation shows (Family Guy, Simpsons, American Dad), most British sketch shows, every soap you could ever hope to imagine - okay sure I guess if they banned Jeremy Kyle I could get behind them...