Is it time to sack Wenger?

[K1LLSW1TCH]

Snip.

Good post, but you spelt Vieira wrong.

 

[Greenlizard0]

Those damn Panasonics..

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

Those damn Panasonics..

What's your view on Chamakh? I haven't seen him play at all but Wenger rates him and he's desperate to play for us. A lot of times this season I've watched in frustration as we play excellently up to their 18 yard box and then just prance around the outside for a bit, doing nothing until we concede possession and gift a goal on the counter.

We definitely need more firepower up front and Wenger needs to go with something that suits our current squad better. I hate the 4-3-3 we play at the moment, it always seems really stretched and we shouldn't have to rely on Sagna and Clichy to constantly cross into the oppositions box, when we are countered on it means we only have Song, Vermaelen and Gallas back to help at best, and at worst only Gallas and Vermaelen.

 

[johnyccc]

When sacking a manager, the question must always be "is there someone we would get who would do better?". I'm not sure there is but I don't think he could have any complaints if they did try someone else. From my point of view (outside, looking in) he seems unable or unwilling to address key issues that are holding the club back. The "great football" and past success only goes so far, ultimately there comes a point when they have to do something I would assume.

 

[Owenb]

Arsenal's season ended when they were beaten by Spurs- anything after that game is irrelevant. It's the end of the season, the WC is starting in 5 weeks etc.

 

[Yas786]

Simple answer is no, for among other reasons who could we get that'd achieve what he has with the same budget.

Wenger's never going to say we're not really challenging for the EPL or the Euro Cup. But looking at it logically, it's not always possible to see that we can or seem to do so over an entire campaign. Yes, during the season we may well be up there, but looking at the current one, 3rd isn't a harsh reflection and I'd have taken it at the beginning. Without the budgets of UTD and Chelsea, (and now Man City) his main priority is to get as much cash as possible. By, in the 'current' season going as far as possible in the Champion's League, and qualifying for next year's competition. The latter point is particularly important, and he's managed to repeat this every year he's been here.

Yes, we've been close to actually getting trophies, and its' ****ing annoying that in just 13 years or so we've come 2nd in every competition possible. It's very much more annoying that we've seemingly thrown away 4 league titles by faltering at the finishing line (I don't really count this season due to the reasons above). It's a strange trait that Wenger's sides have had. He should really instill the idea of when to peak. We have a history of doing this at the beginning, and then faltering at the end; UTD in particular have almost always done the opposite and their trophy cabinet is there for show. I'm not sure what's worse, scraping upwards, or falling into a place after having been in a promising position above.

I think this year, he's got to make pretty big changes, hopefully before the WC starts. I always look at Diaby, Denilson, Vela and Song in the same way. 4 players who've come through and Wenger's really stuck by them. But all is clear that out of 4, only 1 is remotely good enough. He has to be ruthless and get rid of the 3 that can't be relied upon, firstly to then allow or force himself to improve the squad, by which time he can ear mark wages for new players. He has a good history of balancing between being quick to act and being faithful but seemingly has leaned (more than likely due to financial constraints) towards the latter. The keeper situation in that respect is one where he's got to try and move quickly (buy somebody, sell Almunia and/or Fabianski).Years ago it took 2 mistakes by Lehmann before his Arsenal career was essentially over. I'm not sure just how many more our current 2 will be permitted to make; a good keeper affects the entire team and it's an obvious and detrimental weakspot to have.

I've already mentioned this, but he's got to find out just how it is our players get injured so frequently and are out for so long. Yes, teams do openly get over physical with us and that's **** when this behaviour is celebrated and lauded, but our players are constantly 'returning from injury' at which point they're then injured again. Arshavin's stated it isn't easy to get treated at the club while RvP went back to Holland. I think it's this that could be the key to it all. This combined with the fact that some in our team are young isn't good for neither their development nor the side progressing. It's also puzzling that we supposedly have some of the newest and best facilities on the land.

He's also got to strengthen the squad as well. Years ago a 'crisis' might unfold and we'd have to bring on Ray Parlour. Or Edu. Two examples who could do the job in not just their favoured, but in another position too. You got a real sense of the strength and quality of the squad when they used to pull it off. There are some at the club now who can't even play well in their favoured position, or there are too many others who, again, are "still young".

He's got to keep Sol Campbell. He'd be invaluable for the dressing room and in training like Giggs, Scholes or Neville are for UTD. It's the difference in budgets that Arsenal really have had to cash our equivelants in, i.e. Vieira, Henry etc. That's a good step forward Wenger's taken this year. I've just realised that we're now on 9 defeats for the season which is 50% more than last year.

Damn Greenlizard i actually had to look twice to make sure it wasnt DM posting.

But unlike him you make some very good points and i cant disagree with you on most if not all.

Only thing i have to say is regarding the GK situation...surely if our defence was more solid then that in turn would give Almunia or Fabianski more confidence....today i thought Fab played pretty well..first goal in all honesty shouldnt have stood as he was clearly pushed and when he got up he was clearly out of position...the second goal i didnt see to be honest as i had to pop out. Anyhow my point is that our defence, which in the past has been our key to our many successes just isnt good enough...hate to say it but since Cole left we have been left a bit wanting...Clichy is ok but hes never been as good as Cole...perhaps Wenger should have paid him more and not have let him go to Chelski a few yrs back.

But i do agree with you in that we have to get rid of the players who just dont perform ie Edu, Diaby, Denilson, Silvestre...amongst a few others as well. No point in keeping players who perform a few times out of 30 odd games.

 

[Yas786]

Arsenal's season ended when they were beaten by Spurs- anything after that game is irrelevant. It's the end of the season, the WC is starting in 5 weeks etc.

No our season ended when we got thumped by Barca imo, since then we have been a shell of the team that did pretty well before that game...since that game we have lost 3 and drawn 1...2 of those losses we should not have lost ie Wigan and Blackburn...Spuds and City were always going to give us headaches but if we managed a draw from the Spuds game then we wouldnt be in threat of losing 3rd place and honestly it wouldnt surprise me if we did....because Fulham are going to be well up for it seeing how we have thrown games away recently.

 

[Yas786]

What's your view on Chamakh? I haven't seen him play at all but Wenger rates him and he's desperate to play for us. A lot of times this season I've watched in frustration as we play excellently up to their 18 yard box and then just prance around the outside for a bit, doing nothing until we concede possession and gift a goal on the counter.

We definitely need more firepower up front and Wenger needs to go with something that suits our current squad better. I hate the 4-3-3 we play at the moment, it always seems really stretched and we shouldn't have to rely on Sagna and Clichy to constantly cross into the oppositions box, when we are countered on it means we only have Song, Vermaelen and Gallas back to help at best, and at worst only Gallas and Vermaelen.

Chamakh has been very good but then hes playing in the French league which isnt so great compared to the EPL for instance. Hes the highest scorer this season i think and is an awesome talent for a young guy but my fear is whether or not if he does come...is he going to improve us or will he turn out to be full of promise but a dud essentially ie Bender for instance...sure hes scored a few goals for us but for most part hes been pretty useless ie his first touch is atrocious.

Sorry Chamakh is around 11th in the french scoring league table...scored 10 this season.

 

[Jambo]

I'm quite surprised at the responses here. I think he definitely should be sacked. He has achieved nothing. Things need to change at Arsenal but maybe they just have no ambition.

 

[Yas786]

I'm quite surprised at the responses here. I think he definitely should be sacked. He has achieved nothing. Things need to change at Arsenal but maybe they just have no ambition.

Ok so Arsenal sack him....who do you think should replace him??..

Plenty of people have said to sack him but no ones given a good enough replacement...and Mourinho or Fergie aint coming to Arsenal due to the fact that we dont spend £30+mill on a player or 2.

So yes who would replace Wenger if he left or was sacked.

 

[drunkenmaster]

ANyone that thinks a striker will solve the problem when Wenger refuses to play two strikers, is utterly bonkers.

I think he did great when he came in, in a league full of boozing footballers he created an incredibly professional team of athlete/footballers who did fantastically well on the cheap(in general) compared to other teams.

But in the decade since then, from 3rd to 20th have also become athlete's, even Dunn and the Sunderland guy whose name eludes me have improved after losing weight and getting fitter. The worst team has a bunch of players who can run non stop for 90 minutes faster than anyone used to run in the league 15 years ago.

Wenger made us professional, turned us into a profitable business and did great, but we haven't improved in 6 years now, we haven't moved on, we've been completely stagnant as many other teams are improving. Though saying that, almost every team in the league is worse this year, largely due to more open and attacking football.

Wenger has, SO many times this season ditched 4-5-1 to play 4-4-2 for 20 minutes at the end while chasing a game. How can someone not learn, he has a squad that parts of it have been at the club for 10 years, playing in a 4-4-2, training day in day out in 4-4-2, for years on end. They ALL suck badly in a 4-5-1, Wenger seems to admit this when he always reverts to a more effective 4-4-2. How can you keep going back to a non working system time and time again?

Likewise, we haven't really been competitive with the top 4 in the league, in terms of playing them and winning consistantly, for 3-4 years. It was 3-4 years ago Wenger started to play 4-5-1 against the bigger teams and the more physical away games, it was bad then and we went from often winning those games with the odd big loss, to consistantly losing them, but with less 6-1's.

Personally I still think it was that 49 game run and losing to Utd, before then I'd never seen Wenger consider anything except all out attacking 4-4-2, since then 4-5-1 went from pulled out for the big games, to standard, and we've become less and less effective against the sides we need to beat. He got spanked, he got timid and he won't play to the teams strengths.

Eduardo and Vela are FANTASTIC players, they showed it when they joined, they are playing crap now as Vela's started a handfull of games, months apart, in two years, same for Eddie, players aren't great when they are constantly dropped, even more so when they score a fantastic hattrick like Vela and aren't given a game for another 2 months after.

How absolutely mindblowingly crucial has bendtner been since he got back from injury, by FAR our highest scoring player in that period, great interplay, held the ball, strong in defence and offensive set pieces, scored one and set up two, AGAINST BARCA, the second RVP is fit he's not only dropped from the starting striker, but he's not even getting subbed in?

In the previous two years, when Bendtners scored 2 and set 3 up against Sheffield in maybe the best game the club has had in the past 5 years, he and Vela were dropped, he'd come on, have 15 minutes, if he scored, we wouldn't see him again for 5 games, we'll put him in when every other possibility is injured, and the SECOND someone is fit, Wenger benches him and anyone else.

Theo Walcott has been shockingly bad, as he was today, helpless defensively, ineffective going forward, weak, awful passing, why's he starting? LIkewise Sagna whose been truly awful this year. Diaby, Diaby quite literally could have sat on the sidelines against Barca and we wouldn't have missed him, as he's been in EVERY remotely difficult game, he's a truly terrible player but Wenger's sticking by him.

Wenger doesn't want to win, he wants his kids that he put his faith into years ago to succeed. He will NOT admit failure with any player, he won't transfer list players that aren't working, he'll play them till some sucker offers them more money and they make a fuss and leave.

Our game has gone backwards in the past 5 years, we've not won anything for the longest stretch of time apparently in the last 40 years or so now. The club makes a LOT of money, we pay decent wages and have a HUGE youth squad who no one makes it out of. We should be winning titles, we should be offloading the dead weight, and right now, Wenger is that dead weight.

Every year he stays, he is simply making his record less impressive. He can't make a winning team anymore, because he's not learnt from a single one of his mistakes in the past 5 years(well, longer).

He makes the wrong choices and time and time again shows his complete tactical ineptitude. Other managers show it, against a tough team someone will play a different player at left or right back, choose a different centre back to suit the situation, or a different striker, or a different winger, or drop an ineffective player. Wenger went from "lets play 4-5-1 badly without building a team for it or buying the right players" and losing most of the time we used it, to using it all the time.


There was an obvious and HUGE change in his policies and style of football 5 years ago, a year later it was clear he sucks at trying to build a defensive team, he can't train or buy a defensive team, he'll NEVER make 4-5-1 work and he won't drop it either, 5 years on with all the same problems, worsening by the season, its a joke if he stays.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Ok so Arsenal sack him....who do you think should replace him??..

Plenty of people have said to sack him but no ones given a good enough replacement...and Mourinho or Fergie aint coming to Arsenal due to the fact that we dont spend £30+mill on a player or 2.

So yes who would replace Wenger if he left or was sacked.

Hodgeson, Ranieri, Moyes possibly, Hiddink, Riikaard did very well at Barca, playing the right football, won the CL.

But the problem is, you're saying it like whose better, like Wenger's doing brilliantly, he's not, he's got a great squad that half of it would not have joined if Arsenal were playing the way they were now. RVP, Fabregas, Gallas, and really all our best players wouldn't have joined if Arsenal weren't title contenders when they joined. LIkewise Arshavin and other players would never have joined if we didn't have Fabregas, Gallas and RVP at the club keeping us in the top 4. If any of those leave, with zero success at the moment, we won't get the same quality of players to come in.

AT the moment I think theres any number of managers out there who could take our current squad and get in the top 4, or at least fight very hard to get in the top 4, and thats ALL Wenger has achieved for years. I think theres several better managers right now who could take us further.

 

[Jambo]

Ok so Arsenal sack him....who do you think should replace him??..

Plenty of people have said to sack him but no ones given a good enough replacement...and Mourinho or Fergie aint coming to Arsenal due to the fact that we dont spend £30+mill on a player or 2.

So yes who would replace Wenger if he left or was sacked.

I'm not sure off the top of my head but I'm sure there a loads of continental managers who could do a good job at Arsenal. There should be a few available after the World Cup. Maybe even Capello, Del Bosque? Pellegrini maybe?

Arsenal do need to make some transfer funds available as well though.

 

[dante6491]

I'm quite surprised at the responses here. I think he definitely should be sacked. He has achieved nothing. Things need to change at Arsenal but maybe they just have no ambition.

I wouldn't say he has achieved nothing. He has consistently put Arsenal through to the knock out stages of the CL, has reached finals in the domestic cups, always had a top four finish and as a business made sure Arsenal are always profitable.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Ok so Arsenal sack him....who do you think should replace him??..

Plenty of people have said to sack him but no ones given a good enough replacement...and Mourinho or Fergie aint coming to Arsenal due to the fact that we dont spend £30+mill on a player or 2.

So yes who would replace Wenger if he left or was sacked.

i'd give drunkenmaster the job, at least that way we wouldn't need to read his mini stories he publishes daily

 

[FrankJH]

Personally think people are diluding themselves if they really think AW has never had the cash to spend. Its always been about him not wanting to spend rather than anything else.

4 £30 million players (Berba, Rooney and Rio, and Veron) in around 8 seasons isnt exactly as though we buy one every season - and look at the cost of Evra and Vidic (under £6m and £8m) let alone all the young players we try and introduce to the Utd team

I really think Arsenal will continue to challange for the cups but they wont get near the EPL until Wenger goes (as he will never spend huge amounts of money on experience, which is the fundamental reason Arsenal fail most seasons)

You either buy big for a few players - or you have the knowledge of success inbuilt into core players that have been there for a long time , neither of which Arsenal have

AW has done fantastically - and some of his buys are just brilliant, but thats never going to be enough without the belief in the team (I mean, look at Vidic and Evra when they first came over had a horrible time, but with the belief around them from winners all over the park they became the players they were capable of becoming)

 

[Caseh]

I think he should get 1 more season. I think some money has been there for him to spend, but he's done a good job because he's allowed the club to be able to pay things off quicker, due to him spending very little. Which will help the club more in the long run IMO.

I also don't think there is anyone that could come in and replace him, as I think Arsenal have much less money to spend than people think. I also don't believe the board would throw money at a new manager, after Wenger has worked so hard to keep all the finances tight and controlled.

I really hope he does spend a bit of money on a Keeper, some decent Defensive cover, and an experienced DM (Not saying anything against Song there, he's been superb) for the experience he would bring in the close/big games. And then Chamakh, on a free if he's supposed to be coming.

 

[Gilly]

No, it would be idiocy in the extreme.

 

[Smit]

I think he will be there for at least another few seasons.
They only really need 2 or 3 quality players and I think they would be a solid shout of getting closer to winning the Premiership again.

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

I'm quite surprised at the responses here. I think he definitely should be sacked. He has achieved nothing. Things need to change at Arsenal but maybe they just have no ambition.

You're an idiot. He's achieved nothing... except being the most successful manager in our great clubs history. He changed so many things at the club for the better and you shouldn't forget that twice out of the 5 years that we haven't won the league we have came very, very close and faltered at the last hurdle which cannot always be attributed to Wenger. If his tactics didn't work we would never be in with a shout of anything.

We have plenty of ambition and this season in my opinion the players haven't really been hungry enough. As soon as Fabregas got injured we looked like a team who didn't really care about the outcome of the remaining matches, the only player who looks like he wants to win every game and take every 3 points is Sol Campbell at the moment. Sure, Wenger is turning a bit of a blind eye at the goalkeeper situation but he didn't buy in January because there wasn't a massive problem in January.

Almunia has never been an amazing goalkeeper but he's a decent shot stopper and he'd make a good back up goalie, you have to look at the entire team when we concede goals, not just the goalkeeper. Our defence has leaked way too many times this season and Wenger has already come out with a few quotes saying we have given away too many goals and you don't win the league with this amount of goals scored past us so clearly he is aware of the things he needs to change and work on in the summer.

This will be a make or break summer and following season for Wenger in the eyes of most fans but to be honest, if we end up getting 2nd place in the league and a champions league semi final I'd be happy with that. We haven't won the league for 5 years now but at least Wenger is consistent and we haven't ended up doing a Liverpool whom might I add have had 10's even hundreds of millions of pounds ****ed down the drain by the Spanish waiter who seems to pick his next transfers on the back of playing Fifa and then proceed to pay over the odds for them.

Arsene Wenger is the best thing that's ever happened to this club and after a few frustrating seasons it seems that a lot of fans are quick to forget his achievements.