Poll: *** 2010 General Election Result & Discussion ***

[PermaBanned]

So basically you are just guessing and deciding someone you disagree with politically has said it when it is very far removed from their own personal political views? Frankly your idealist "socialist" world is closer to a dictatorship than Dolph's views will ever be.

No, i'm remembering what i've read.

My idealist world involves no specific leaders as such, to the extent that is practically possible. But lets not get into that now aye, create another thread if you wish.

 

[The Mad Rapper]

Thousands of aspects of the British way of life have changed since 1939, many of which had been around for a lot longer than universal suffrage had at the time.

Perhaps, but I am still right and you know I am - stop arguing the toss

 

[Rich_L]

Very small minority? Actions maybe, but their opinions are supported by far more, a number of polls seem to suggest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ele...-voters-want-proportional-representation.html

The ICM survey for The Sunday Telegraph revealed that 48 per cent backed PR – a key demand of the Liberal Democrats. Some 39 per cent favoured sticking with the current "first past the post system" for electing MPs.

It's clearly a major issue for a great number of people. Why not just put it to population and see what they decide - I find it hard to understand the argument for preventing the public from voting on how they want to vote for their government I could understand the reticence if the LD's wanted a straight change of the system without consulting the public but as the Tories should know, sometimes the call for a referendum can be quite a popular tactic

I thought this was also very surprising, actually

Some 33 per cent wanted a coalition government between the Tories and the Liberal Democrats, while 32 per cent thought Nick Clegg's party should team up with Labour. Just 18 per cent favoured a minority Tory government

Are the media predictions of a public rage-out if the Libs/Lab form a coalition overstated?

 

[Dolph]

Very small minority? Actions maybe, but their opinions are supported by far more, a number of polls seem to suggest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ele...-voters-want-proportional-representation.html

It's clearly a major issue for a great number of people. Why not just put it to population and see what they decide - I find it hard to understand the argument for preventing the public from voting on how they want to vote for their government

I'm waiting to see how many want it after this week, especially if getting it involves keeping Brown in power... Remember, Clegg-mania vanished as quickly as it came, and how many people support PR in a referendum would depend on exactly how it was set up and what sacrifices have been made to get the vote.

The election results do not show a mandate for change, seeing as neither Labour nor the Tories were offering PR (although Labour were trying to spin AV as fairer despite it being less proportional than FPTP).

As I said earlier, how many other lib dem policies should be sacrificed to protect just the one?

 

[mike62]

So, less than half are in favour.

Motion not carried.

 

[rypt]

Shamelessly stolen from another Forum, there are a few more to add to the list below (20 or 21 in total I think)

Seats won by Lib Dems where UKIP vote was bigger than the gap to the Tories

Somerton & Frome
Wells
Dorset & Poole North
Solihull
St Austell & Newquay

Seats won by Labour where UKIP vote was bigger than the gap to the Tories

Southampton Itchen
Telford
Hampstead & Kilburn
Derby North
Derbyshire North East
Great Grimsby
Morley & Outwood
Walsall North
Walsall East
Newcastle under Lyme
Wirral South
Bolton West
Middlesborough South & Cleveland East
Plymouth Moor View

Had Tories been a bit more right wing, and given a referendum on EU, then they would be in power right now

 

[z3r0]

Finchley.. isn't that Margaret Thatchers old seat?

 

[The Mad Rapper]

Shamelessly stolen from another Forum, there are a few more to add to the list below (20 or 21 in total I think)



Had Tories been a bit more right wing, and given a referendum on EU, then they would be in power right now

That'll teach them!

 

[Glaucus]

RDM, i'm not sure who exactly said it but there is certainly a forum member who has said that they support dictatorship on more than one occasion, Dolph springs to mind.

I've said dictatorship is the best government, when you have someone who wants the best for the country, is not power mad, doesn't want the job and everything they do is based on eh good of the people. But have also said it never works like that.

 

[rypt]

That should say Hampstead & Kilburn I think actually and not Finchley

 

[Dolph]

Shamelessly stolen from another Forum, there are a few more to add to the list below (20 or 21 in total I think)



Had Tories been a bit more right wing, and given a referendum on EU, then they would be in power right now

only if you assume that they wouldn't have lost more votes from the other side of the party as a result.

More authoritarian policies and a vote on EU withdrawal would have cost them my vote, for example.

 

[PermaBanned]

That'll teach them!

Assuming it didn't discourage their existing voters, of course.

 

[rypt]

only if you assume that they wouldn't have lost more votes from the other side of the party as a result.

More authoritarian policies and a vote on EU withdrawal would have cost them my vote, for example.

You would not vote Tory if they offered a referendum on EU - which was the ONLY condition UKIP were asking in return for not standing in GE and telling their supporters to vote Tory.

UKIP are not more authoritarian in many aspects though, they support lower fuel duty and car taxes, they oppose carbon trading and capping, they oppose CCTV and ID cards

Here is something taken talking about Wells

Same here, and I'm in the Wells consituency which the Tories narrowly lost to the LD's by about 800 votes. The Con MP completely ignored my letters (mainly about carbon taxes and carbon trading fraud, and policy regarding man made global warming theory (which UKIP does not support)) but then a few days before the election began bombarding me with emails asking for my support and vote, which I treated with the same contempt as I was shown, and voted UKIP as did 1700 others.

So the LD's took this seat from the Tories who had held it for 55 years, partly because of me and a few like me. We didn't do this with our eyes closed, I expected the outcome would be like this, will they get the message - I don't know.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Had Tories been a bit more right wing, and given a referendum on EU, then they would be in power right now

Not at all, there will be many amongst the UKIP voters who voted UKIP yet would never, ever, vote Tory no matter the policies are.

 

[z3r0]

I'd so love a referendum on getting out of the EU, unfortunately our current crop of politicians will never allow it.

 

[rypt]

Not at all, there will be many amongst the UKIP voters who voted UKIP yet would never, ever, vote Tory no matter the policies are.

How does that work, UKIP have several ex-Tory Lords, UKIP policies are basically classic Tory policies
Who else would vote for UKIP but Tories who are unhappy at the new cuddly, centrist CMD Tory party?

 

[dannyjo22]

Lets take your idiotic Labour spin statement and turn it around shall we.

More people voted 'against' a Labour government than voted 'against' the Tories.

Even more people voted 'against' a Liberal government than voted 'against' the Tories.

If you're going to use such idiotic statements, then at least realise that whichever way you look at it, the Conservatives won the election, they just didn't achieve the commons majority they wanted.

For me the whole thing shows a real lack of confidence in Cameron and the tory party. Sure the tories were there for the taking in 97 and labour won a landslide. With everything that's happened since Blair passed the poison chalice this should have been a Tory landslide.

Easy pickings, I don't know of haven't spoken to anyone in the last few months that hasn't thought Brown is anything but a complete **** wit. Gaff after Gaff and yet still Cameron couldn't mop it up easily.

 

[Glaucus]

I'd so love a referendum on getting out of the EU, unfortunately our current crop of politicians will never allow it.

and does the public now what happens in the EU to make a judgement.
Is free trade even on the table if we removed ourself.

Unfortunate I no longer want a referendum, I have no doubt people will just vote for the sake of it and have no idea what they are voting for.

 

[PMKeates]

Perhaps, but I am still right and you know I am - stop arguing the toss

To argue the toss is the only reason I get out of bed in the morning

I think the EU situation is a good example. A referendum on our position in the EU would probably result in the UK pulling out, and for that reason the electorate isn't trusted with such a decision because it's "too stupid" in the eyes of the political class.

One could argue that a system with weighted-votes (to avoid stupid decisions) and many referenda would be more a more sensible democracy than what we have now.

 

[Rich_L]

I'm waiting to see how many want it after this week, especially if getting it involves keeping Brown in power... Remember, Clegg-mania vanished as quickly as it came, and how many people support PR in a referendum would depend on exactly how it was set up and what sacrifices have been made to get the vote.

The election results do not show a mandate for change, seeing as neither Labour nor the Tories were offering PR (although Labour were trying to spin AV as fairer despite it being less proportional than FPTP).

As I said earlier, how many other lib dem policies should be sacrificed to protect just the one?

Of course opinions may vary, however I think the call for a more proportional voting system has been around for a lot longer than 'Clegg-mania' and as such the call for it would be strong in any referendum - for example, UKIP supports AVplus in local and national elections and you could see many of the 'fringe' parties mobilising their parties to call for a 'Yes' vote on PR which I think could prove a very compelling voice in favour of it.

The very fact that the Tories don't even want to give the public the choice I suspect gives away that they deeply fear 'losing' - much like Labour weaseled out of a referendum on the EU because they feared 'losing'.