Poll: *** 2010 General Election Result & Discussion ***

[PlacidCasual]

Electoral reform should include the people getting the PM they want without losing the constituency link for our legislators but reflecting on national trends in voting.

I think that could be achieved with a directly elected PM, single transferable vote election constituency representatives and straight PR choice for a proportion of the Lords.

Every 4 years you get polling card with 3 choices to make.

Who would you like as PM, please choose one only
Mr A
Mr B
Mrs C

Who would you like to represent Averageton and Normal-Sea in the Commons, please choose one only
Bob A
Jilll B
Jane C

Which party would you support for the available seats in the Lords, please choose one only
Loonies
Morons
Idiots

This breaks the link of the Executive neutering the legislature and gives an oipportunity for fringe parties to recieve a voice. It also means that the element of PR where by the party machine controls the candidate choice is limited to the Upper House and with more limited numbers so cosy coalitions can't stifle the will of the public easily.





Oh and it's about time Brown was out.

 

[Glaucus]

I make absolutely no assertion that PR would give a 'better' government, not to mention because as you can see in this thread, 'anything but Tory' is the worst government ever to happen to the country so it's entirely subjective. What PR would give was a government that better reflected the views of the populace - nothing more nothing less.

is it needed? is it a good thing?
The current system iis PR at a local level.

why would you want to implement a system that you conceded could be bad for the country, just because of some precieved fairness.

 

[Stretch]

Just like I always thought. The talks with the Tories are nothing more than a charade so the lib dems can say they tried.

 

[Strife212]

As ever, you are wrong; New Labour got 35.3% of the popular vote and the Liberal Democrats got 22.1%, giving a New Labour/Liberal Democrat Government 57.4%.

...

I'm putting you on my ignore list :/

 

[mmj_uk]

Too bad, that's not how our system works. And being as the likely new leader of the Labour party will be an MP they will have been voted for, by their constituency.

Gordon Brown pledged to stay on for 5 years, lying to win votes is not how a healthy democracy works.

Labour are a bunch of liars.

 

[avec]

Electoral reform should include the people getting the PM they want without losing the constituency link for our legislators but reflecting on national trends in voting.

I think that could be achieved with a directly elected PM, single transferable vote election constituency representatives and straight PR choice for a proportion of the Lords.

Every 4 years you get polling card with 3 choices to make.

Who would you like as PM, please choose one only
Mr A
Mr B
Mrs C

Who would you like to represent Averageton and Normal-Sea in the Commons, please choose one only
Bob A
Jilll B
Jane C

Which party would you support for the available seats in the Lords, please choose one only
Loonies
Morons
Idiots

This breaks the link of the Executive neutering the legislature and gives an oipportunity for fringe parties to recieve a voice. It also means that the element of PR where by the party machine controls the candidate choice is limited to the Upper House and with more limited numbers so cosy coalitions can't stifle the will of the public easily.





Oh and it's about time Brown was out.

Something like that wouldn't be so bad at all.

 

[Dolph]

As ever, you are wrong; New Labour got 35.3% of the popular vote and the Liberal Democrats got 22.1%, giving a New Labour/Liberal Democrat Government 57.4%.

New Labour did not get 35% of the vote, they got 29% of the vote, you've confused new Labour with the Tories. (it should be easy to spot, look for the figure that's smaller than the Tories in 1997).

A lib/Con government has 57.4% of the vote
A lib/lab government has 51.1% of the vote.

Even using the retarded logic of adding them up, more people want lib/con than lib/lab.

Despite all of this, I still believe that we will eventually see some sort of agreement between the Tories and the Liberal Democrats which will probably not last very long. the Tories just need to "get real" and move beyond accepting any Liberal Democrat policy proposal with which they happen to agree, rejecting anything they don't and trying to force through some of their completely barking policies such as increasing the IHT threshold.

It could be worse, we could be looking at New Labour's policies...

 

[avec]

As ever, you are wrong; New Labour got 35.3% of the popular vote and the Liberal Democrats got 22.1%, giving a New Labour/Liberal Democrat Government 57.4%.

If you're going to use those stats *again* then at least get them correct (Labour 35?) and don't forget that if you do the same calculation with the Tories and the Lib Dems, you get an even greater percentage.

No matter what way you look at it, the Conservatives won the election.

 

[The Mad Rapper]

it's dangerous to the country, to rush through any major change in law or politics with out careful planning and restraints on power.

Who has said it is to be rushed through? I think I am on record here, together with Megatronic, as having said the economy is the most pressing matter. Electoral reform needs to be implemented, but not right now. All we really need for now is to know it will be addressed.

 

[Ahleckz]

You don't rank candidates in a true PR system. You just vote for a Party and the MPs are allocated to the seats won. Aren't you thinking of AV+?

Yeah, I put my points the wrong way round - heads a bit boggled.

 

[robgmun]

Gordon Brown is gone then, stepping aside so that the Lib-dems can speak to Labour.

The world is watching Clegg, if you team up with other losers then a lot of people will be very angry. You won't be forgiven so easy come next election and your vote will collapse.

 

[Glaucus]

Who has said it is to be rushed through? I think I am on record here, together with Megatronic, as having said the economy is the most pressing matter. Electoral reform needs to be implemented, but not right now. All we really need for now is to know it will be addressed.

If the media is right the libs. They want a coalition based on a PR reform. Not one that will be decided after an investigation.
And what happens if the reports come back saying PR is not the way forward and something like AV is. Do we ignore that and go PR anyway.

It is retarded to force this issue for a coalition.
it should be based on economy with an agreement to look at electoral reform. Maybe even setting up a commite as a condition.

It's not that I'm against PR, I'm against any rushed change to such an important system.
I'm also against people saying they want PR when they clearly have no idea what it is, what the difference in the models are and the lack of how it will benefit the UK.

 

[stockhausen]

... I didn't vote for Gordon Brown I voted for David! ...

Which David would that be

 

[aslco]

I think almost no one asking for PR actually no anything about PR and certainly not the pros and cons of different systems and which would be beneficial.

This and i'm guilty of it too, but ive seen that the dutch and german parliaments do fine, and they have a much more proportional government where peoples vote seems to be more direct. Sorry but we look so hypocritical at the moment saying how were the worlds oldest 'democracy' when infact we use a FPTP system and invade all these 'countries'

i feel embarassed

 

[Will Lucky]

Gordon Brown is gone then, stepping aside so that the Lib-dems can speak to Labour.

The world is watching Clegg, if you team up with other losers then a lot of people will be very angry. You won't be forgiven so easy come next election and your vote will collapse.

And in that next election they keep their Coalition going because they will have played the system with PR.

 

[Glaucus]

This and i'm guilty of it too, but ive seen that the dutch and german parliaments do fine, and they have a much more proportional government where peoples vote seems to be more direct. UOTE]

They also have a proper so constitution and other differences. Would this cause a problem I have no idea.

FPTP is democracy it is also PR, just at a local level not national.

 

[rz30]

What human being has given his all like Brown has, surely he would be non-human if he didn't make mistakes.

He was unelected as nobody in Labour wanted to challenge him for the leadership, two previous tory PM's were also unelected.
It was pretty obvious he didn't fully support the Iraq war.
He did not cause the recession, it was a global domino effect originated in America and hit every developed country there is.
He has been a moral figured head and social concious for Britian and the world trying to be fair to all sections of society.
Has written off, where possible, all debt in Africa
Introduced many public service reforms.

It is sickening that the smug torys may get into power, just look at the smugness on osborne face, it's like a schoolcchums clique running the country and all beacuase they are desperate not too lose their grip on their highly privelged way of life.

Bah!

 

[avec]

PR could mean that the Tories get even more votes in the next election and still don't govern the country because Labour and the Lib Dems did a mutually beneficial backroom deal to usurp them. Is this fair? Is this 'in the countries best interest'?

I think not.

The Lib Dems want PR to benefit themselves more than the voters.

Labour want AV to benefit themselves more than the voters.

The Conservatives want FPTP because they believe there should be a strong government either way.

 

[meghatronic]

This and i'm guilty of it too, but ive seen that the dutch and german parliaments do fine, and they have a much more proportional government where peoples vote seems to be more direct. Sorry but we look so hypocritical at the moment saying how were the worlds oldest 'democracy' when infact we use a FPTP system and invade all these 'countries'

i feel embarassed

Yup, they do really, really well:

The NRW result means Mrs Merkel's coalition no longer has a majority in the upper house of parliament.
This will make it more difficult for her government to get legislation passed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8672946.stm

 

[atpbx]

Oh look, labour teasing the british public with the prospect of yet another unelected PM.

Why cant they just step aside with honor and good grace?