**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

Guest2 said:
About 5 or 6 patches back the game was much more balanced.
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to be fair i pretty much agree.
I can understand the origional nerfs etc, as they were TOO good for their Tier spot. but now, theres just not much point in making them at all.

against Protoss & Terran their no longer that effective.

The only good thing about it is that it will cause ZvZ to become more exciting and micro intensive :)

Muta/lings will now become more viable earlier on yey.

I think to balance it out would require a tier swap with hydras. Make Hydralisk T1.5 and Roach T2. nerf the hydralisk accordingly and buff the roach accordingly. Only problem with that is it makes all Zerg T1.5 "light", which means it gets torn to bits by Hellions. not sure how effective they would be without some awesome micro from the Terran though.
 
^ Agreed, I think the reason Blizzard only changed a few things was to see what the impact of this nerf is on zerg. If Zergs start getting pounded then they will know without any uncertainty that it was due to this.

Do they really need to change the hydra that much if they drop it down a tier? Its already fragile, give it the range upgrade at tier 2 (i.e. the same time it currently gets it) and I'm sure it will be fine. The Hydra currently needs the roach to tank damage, without the roach the hydra/ling combo will be very fragile, but still complies with the zerg war doctrine (i.e. massing lots of weak units and winning due to weight of numbers)
 
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Manlove is my forte said:
^ Agreed, I think the reason Blizzard only changed a few things was to see what the impact of this nerf is on zerg. If Zergs start getting pounded then they will know without any uncertainty that it was due to this.

Do they really need to change the hydra that much if they drop it down a tier? Its already fragile, give it the range upgrade at tier 2 (i.e. the same time it currently gets it) and I'm sure it will be fine. The Hydra currently needs the roach to tank damage, without the roach the hydra/ling combo will be very fragile, but still complies with the zerg war doctrine (i.e. massing lots of weak units and winning due to weight of numbers)
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yeah you have a point there, Hydras get eaten quite quickly by pretty much anything. They have always needed a good number of the roaches. You're right, they probably don't need taking down too much, if at all. I'd still like to see them be a little quicker, like they were in SC/BW, but i think thats just personal choice ^^

I know for the time being im gonna take a break from Zerg, and play another race as my main, had so many nerfs over the last few patches. and STILL waiting for Ultras to actually be viable.

had a game the other day wher ei had this guy beaten, had them map etc, so i thought i'd test out how viable ultras were, mixxed them up with lings/roach/hydra and sent them running at a relativly small protoss army, 2 colossus, and standard Zea/Stalker/Sentry.. got absolutely torn appart, we're talking 7 Ultras here... fortunatly the roach/hydras ripped through the rest, but its just a joke that our "all powerful T3 Ultramoose" is actually just an over-fed zergling.
 
Indie said:
I know for the time being im gonna take a break from Zerg, and play another race as my main, had so many nerfs over the last few patches. and STILL waiting for Ultras to actually be viable.
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I'll have a few games with Zerg but if they are rubbish now then will switch to protoss and go back to zerg when a new patch arrives that makes them even with toss and terran
 
they are even tbh , i had a match against zerg and he had 25-30 roaches . my 25 marines and 12 maruaders did not last long , he had 8 roaches left and i had nothing and he also took out 2 tanks .
i do not know what all the fuss is about if you are a good player
 
chaotic_uk said:
they are even tbh , i had a match against zerg and he had 25-30 roaches . my 25 marines and 12 maruaders did not last long , he had 8 roaches left and i had nothing and he also took out 2 tanks .
i do not know what all the fuss is about if you are a good player
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I'd like to think of myself as a very competant player.. so think about it,
thats not a roach issue, thats an issue where you used marines to counter roaches........not wise.

you could have just had an extra 10-15 marauders which would have ripped through 30-40 roaches with the 12 you already had...
with tanks or without!
 
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Even with the roach nerf I'm watching some Korean ZvP matches where the zerg are still plenty competitive in the early game. That doesn't surprise me though since surely at that stage a few slightly quicker overlords will be enough to keep your army growing and you'll only miss out on a handful of roaches at worst no? It may well prove to be too big of a change when it comes to maxed out armies clashing against each other but the Ultralisk is due for a buff and there's always scope to change the roach's stats again if it's found to be slightly too weak.
 
its all dependant on strategy, the worst thing is, that it makes overlord hunting even more damaging to Zerg. its bad enough as it is with how quickly T/P can get out Pheonix/Valk.
Zerg can't even counter it with a decent sized attack. late game its not so much of an issue due to mass production of overlords anyway, but early game is where its going to really hurt Zerg. wont have a leg to stand on.

Shouldn't have to spend extra minerals on multiple queens which have no further use other than 1 per hatch and spreading creep...

same if their going ground tbh, its not just the fact its an extra overlord every couple of roaches, its also an extra lavae too. which could have been used for economy or extra units
 
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chaotic_uk said:
they are even tbh , i had a match against zerg and he had 25-30 roaches . my 25 marines and 12 maruaders did not last long , he had 8 roaches left and i had nothing and he also took out 2 tanks .
i do not know what all the fuss is about if you are a good player
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You had the wrong unit composition. You needed more marauders, your fault not the roaches'.

Did you have the tanks in siege mode?

Nullvoid said:
Even with the roach nerf I'm watching some Korean ZvP matches where the zerg are still plenty competitive in the early game. That doesn't surprise me though since surely at that stage a few slightly quicker overlords will be enough to keep your army growing and you'll only miss out on a handful of roaches at worst no? It may well prove to be too big of a change when it comes to maxed out armies clashing against each other but the Ultralisk is due for a buff and there's always scope to change the roach's stats again if it's found to be slightly too weak.
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Every overlord produced, is 2 drones not produced. (both in monetary and time costs) This is damaging to the economy and the army. Also to hold off any toss or terran early aggression you will still need to make a bunch of roaches. So this change will mean you need to spend a lot more in the early game on building overlords (rather than economy or army) this is going to hurt the Zerg early game way more than the late game imo.
The roach has a 27 second build time, so even at supply 2, late game you can just rebuild as quickly as the roaches die.


TBH I think the only thing the Zerg players can do is take it on the chin and see if we can work around it. If we lose heavily then hopefully Blizzard will make some changes to resolve the issues. If we all swap races, then Blizzard will not have any data to prove the Zerg race is weaker than the others
 
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Looking forward to playing Starcraft for the first time, pre-ordered from Game. I presume they send the beta key by email ?.

Also i have a feeling im going to get totally mashed as im a complete newb to the Starcraft series, anyone got any tips they could tell me ?.
 
Indie said:
its all dependant on strategy, the worst thing is, that it makes overlord hunting even more damaging to Zerg. its bad enough as it is with how quickly T/P can get out Pheonix/Valk.
Zerg can't even counter it with a decent sized attack. late game its not so much of an issue due to mass production of overlords anyway, but early game is where its going to really hurt Zerg. wont have a leg to stand on.

Shouldn't have to spend extra minerals on multiple queens which have no further use other than 1 per hatch and spreading creep...

same if their going ground tbh, its not just the fact its an extra overlord every couple of roaches, its also an extra lavae too. which could have been used for economy or extra units
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Manlove is my forte said:
Every overlord produced, is 2 drones not produced. (both in monetary and time costs) This is damaging to the economy and the army. Also to hold off any toss or terran early aggression you will still need to make a bunch of roaches. So this change will mean you need to spend a lot more in the early game on building overlords (rather than economy or army) this is going to hurt the Zerg early game way more than the late game imo.
The roach has a 27 second build time, so even at supply 2, late game you can just rebuild as quickly as the roaches die.


TBH I think the only thing the Zerg players can do is take it on the chin and see if we can work around it. If we lose heavily then hopefully Blizzard will make some changes to resolve the issues. If we all swap races, then Blizzard will not have any data to prove the Zerg race is weaker than the others
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Ah right, I see. Well you both have a far greater understanding of the race than me so from what you say it's clearly a much bigger change than I've realised. Is it perhaps Blizzard's way of hinting that they'd like people to open with zerglings mostly and then transition into banelings/roaches before going up a tier to all the later goodies?
 
Jesterstj said:
Looking forward to playing Starcraft for the first time, pre-ordered from Game. I presume they send the beta key by email ?.

Also i have a feeling im going to get totally mashed as im a complete newb to the Starcraft series, anyone got any tips they could tell me ?.
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Just plenty of practice, learn the keyboard hotkeys/shortcuts, watch the replays.
 
just played as protoss... bare in mind the last time i really played protoss properly was when i was doing placement matches and i ended up in silver league.

just played 4 straight games and won all in Platinum.. goes to show really -.-
PvZ x2
PvT x1
PvP x1
 
Guest2 said:
whats does the x2, x1, x1 mean?

Do you jsut mean protoss is now better than terran and zerg? (or you are bettre with them)
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well im just stating the game sand matchups.. no real reason really lol

but ive gone on and played around 12 games, lost 3 :/

every zerg ive played vs gets raped by air, any terran by blink stalkers, pheonix, immortals sentry

infact the only games ive lost are pvp ^^

totally imah race imo
 
No doubt you could probably do the same thing with terran also and it just points to the fact that it's the player controlling them that decides how imba they are at this point in time. :)
 
Nullvoid said:
No doubt you could probably do the same thing with terran also and it just points to the fact that it's the player controlling them that decides how imba they are at this point in time. :)
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hmm very true, but i still think Zerg are by FAR the weakest race at the moment, require a heavy buff imo. will continue to play some protoss, then ill move onto Terran
 
Nullvoid said:
If you get some spare time maybe you'd like to have a peek at the Group D and E vods in the Korean Qualifiers section of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124584#1

They're all patch 12 games and there's plenty of hot PvP, PvZ and ZvZ action to inspire your own play. :)

Edit - Hmm, Perhaps just the group D ones since most of the group E ones have yet to appear...I'll be adding them to the post when they do though.
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ohh nice, cheers for those :) really appreciated! will have a check in abit!

add me if you already havn't btw

Luxotica.pork

can have some games or something!
 
Indie said:
ohh nice, cheers for those :) really appreciated! will have a check in abit!

add me if you already havn't btw

Luxotica.pork

can have some games or something!
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You do realise that playing me will lower your skill level right? :)

I think I did add you last week already so I'll say hi if you're around when I next hop onto bnet.
 
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