Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

muon · 31 May 2010 at 23:56

Stolly said:
The term "pirates" has a specific meaning, and this doesn't fall into it. I understand that the common definition is that they'd need to be a private vessel acting for themselves, not on the behalf of a sovereign government.

As for the second part, if the officer was acting as a private individual you may have a point. If he was acting under what he believed to be lawful orders then you may not.

Fair enough, misuse of the word. The term itself doesn't matter. My point was that if it was illegal, what you could call reasonable force to defend your boat could be quite wide.

Also these "metal objects" which you vaguely refer to are more specifically knives. Caught on video, stabbing a man from behind who was no threat to the attacker. Innocent peace activist this man was not.

The video posted in night vision, I couldn't see a stabbing. I saw the focus on some guys with metal poles or golf clubs or something.

SlugForAButt · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:01

meghatronic said:
As established, the Israeli's did not attack anything.

But they WERE attacked by peace loving jihadists who were only on board to bring food and medicine to the innocents of Palestine.
If those peace loving protesters had stayed their hand, the ship would have been searched and they would have been either allowed on their way or barred, unless... Allah forbid there were naughty things on board! :eek:

Either way, Israel can't win with the Islamic media. Unless Israel gives carte blanche to the Palestinians to carry on building and dumping rockets on Israili citizens, the Palestininas will cry foul with the foaming, rabid Mulsim world behind them.

=VTA=MANFACE · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:02

king-core said:
One phenomenal character climbed ontop of the bbc building bravely and attatching a palestinian flag to the bbc flags, the palestine flag flys high outside BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/10199808.stm

More toilet paper to be had then. At least it will save some money off the BBC budget.

meghatronic · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:05

ghost101 said:
The video posted in night vision, I couldn't see a stabbing. I saw the focus on some guys with metal poles or golf clubs or something.

Eat more carrots.

linky

Ivan Drago · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:06

Stolly said:
That's more conspiracy theory, not backed up by the fact that many Israeli Arabs live happily in Israel proper and are not Palestinian either.

OK just ignore the population figures I just gave you - you obviously don't deal with hard facts. Things are only going to get worse for the Palestinians - mark my words, they will be even more marginalised in the decades to come barring some drastic military episode.

Stolly said:
I'm glad you are back though, so lets talk about some more of your conspiracy theory from earlier

"It's not entirely implausible to think that the Zionist psy-ops knocked this up on a boat back in Israel after the shootings. We can never know."

Still think this is all Zionist psy-ops ? All three videos posted in this thread ?

They are probably real but they would be very easy to fake. What can you really see in the video? Some shadow people fighting with other shadows. The fact that you seem to think nobody especially the Israelis would fake this shows your naivety and ignorance of the modern world. This is a battle for hearts and minds through the media. You should go and read up on what Mossad actually does.

BTW, do you really feel you entitled to such strong opinions on the Middle East when you don't even know the basic countries/languages/races involved?

I will leave you with a quote from former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon:

“Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it means blowing up one or two synagogues here and there, I don't care.”

SlugForAButt · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:07

sanaxe1 said:
Another video

As usual the Islamic world is showing pictures of the aftermath of violence where it has lost out. It seems to have no concept of it's own culpability, instead they blame anyone but themselves.
The pictures of the dead peace loving jihadists will cause riots in Islamic countries yet they will dismiss the videos showing why this happened as lies.
I expect to see more sob story vids from the Islamic TV stations over the next few days, but I bet they won't show the vids of the peace loving extremists attacking the soldiers first.
Shameless!

Stolly · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:07

sanaxe1 said:
Another video

You did a quick ninja edit - you first said that the video showed shots been fired before they boarded, but the video has people saying they were on board during the second minute, so presumably they were boarding pretty much around the time the video started.

meghatronic · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:09

Ivan Drago said:
They are probably real but they would be very easy to fake. What can you really see in the video? Some shadow people fighting with other shadows. The fact that you seem to think nobody especially the Israelis would fake this shows your naivety and ignorance of the modern world. This is a battle for hearts and minds through the media. You should go and read up on what Mossad actually does.

I'll file these videos in between "moon landing fake" and "9/11 towers controlled demolition" videos.

muon · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:14

meghatronic said:
Eat more carrots.

linky

That video has no context. If the soldiers have boarded the ship and drawn weapons (perhaps even fired there weapons already) why is that stabbing so wrong?

The other one shows attacking as soon as the commandos land in which case a stabbing could be disproportionate (although legally probably not).

KNiVES · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:15

And I'll file Israel next to the Nazis under 'murderous genocidal people'

Tombo · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:16

KNiVES said:
And I'll file Israel next to the Nazis under 'murderous genocidal people'

:\

Moley · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:18

KNiVES said:
And I'll file Israel next to the Nazis under 'murderous genocidal people'

Now be fair - "Murderous Genocidal Government". Not all Israeli's are bad.

SlugForAButt · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:19

KNiVES said:
And I'll file Israel next to the Nazis under 'murderous genocidal people'

And where do Muslims go?
And before you get a bit arsey about "not all Muslims advocate what has gone on", let's remember that that probably goes for the Israelis too.
I don't see many on either side protesting against the violence though...
Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander I say.

Shakeel · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:24

slug...relax

gibb · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:37

Israel were boarding a ship that could well have been smuggling arms into Palestine. Protesters decided to violently attack these soldiers and from these videos it looks like their intentions were to kill them.

Therefore I think it was just for the Israelis to fight back in this situation.

If Afghanistan was accessible by sea and some 'protesters' were taking a boat through a blockade to a Taliban held town I think we would consider it reasonable to board said ship peacefully and search it, and if the people aboard decided to try and kill our troops we would expect them to kill the attackers.

Tombo · 1 Jun 2010 at 00:57

But it's Isreal doing it so that makes it wrong obviously.

dowie · 1 Jun 2010 at 01:28

Nope its more that its a ship in international waters sailing under a Turkish flag

Israel technically had no legal right to board the ship - technically you could argue that the Turkish crew/passengers would be in their rights to repel an attempted hostile boarding.

I don't blame the soldiers for shooting people who were trying to attack them with knives and metal poles etc... however they shouldn't have been sent to board the ship in international waters in the first place.

aslco · 1 Jun 2010 at 01:33

Encourage palestine to let the fatah movement get back into power, let the movement put forward a state of 'unity, peace and democracy' for 2 years and then they should be internationally recognised as a an official state.

I'll be ashamed if this government continues to be pushed about by the US and Israel.

TipTop · 1 Jun 2010 at 01:36

dowie said:
they shouldn't have been sent to board the ship in international waters in the first place.

Israel Navy: "Mavi Marmara, you are approaching an area of hostilities which is under a naval blockade. The Gaza area coastal region and Gaza harbor are closed to all maritime traffic. The Israeli government supports delivery of humanitarian supplies to the civilian population in the Gaza Strip and invites you to enter the Ashdod port. Delivery of supplies in accordance with the authorities' regulations will be through the formal land crossings and under your observation, after which you can return to your home ports on the vessels on which you have arrived."

Response: "Negative, negative, our destination is Gaza."

Davies_M · 1 Jun 2010 at 01:43

Yes? They were still in international waters. They boarded in international waters.

The illegal blockade

Who's to blame?

Both sides, the loss of life from the floatilla and the orders/out of control commandos of the IDF.

People can side with whoever they want backed by a predetermined conception of both sides, but the fact remains we haven't recieved all the facts.

Safe to say BOTH sides should shoulder the blame and should be treated accordingly.

edited for tiredness and not responsible for a lack of coherence.