Dr. Kay Segler, BMW M GmbH's Managing Director, confirms the 1-Series M and Turbo M5

[G-MAN2004]

when you have a massive super yacht parked in monaco harbour, who cares about cars as "cheap" as BMWs when you've most probably got a Lambo in Florida, the Veyron in Monaco with you, and an RS6 to "tootle about in" around london ?

To us normal folk without liquid cash that runs into 8 figures, BMWs M cars are aspirational cars, but for those that are seriously rich, they arent imaginative enough !

This. Why exactly would I want to work for them when I can buy any M car and drive it on a track whenever I want to? Not that I would, seeing as I'd have a far greater choice of cars anyway.

So in 1979 then?

Ah, so you mean the first time there was a genuine M car in the range and a 'Sport' model which didnt have the M power, just the M looks, sporty seats, suspension etc?

So 1986?

Do you just sit there with your BMW fact book, reading all of these dates, figures, etc. just to prove people wrong on the Internet?

 

[Gribs]

So in 1979 then?

They actually had low powered 4 cylinders and diesels badged as m-sports back then rather than just the larger petrol engines? I thought that started to happen in the late '90's.

 

[[TW]Fox]

hurfdurf is not referring to just the 4 cylinder models - he is referring to all Sport models.

In 1986, for example, you could buy a 325i Sport. This had M badges on it, inside it, but it wasn't an M Powered car. It was simply a 325i with an M-Tech body styling kit, Sports seats, M-Tech suspension and an LSD. The same was the case with the earlier E12 M535i, and then things really took off with cars like the E34 525i Sport, 535i Sport, and by the time the E36 arrived both the 328i Sport, 318iS and 318Ti Sport compact were being sold with M badges on the doors, steering wheels, wheels, etc etc and since 1996 the LSD has been replaced with ASC and later DSC.

The first 4 cylinder diesel with an M badge from the factory was the 2003 320d Sport (Later renamed 320d M Sport in late 2004 for no apparent reason).

But people shouldnt knock this - its why M cars exist. BMW don't make much if any money by flogging V8 M3's. What they do is provide a halo for the range. Mr Rep can't have an M3 as a company car because he hasn't sold enough carpet samples, but he can have a 320d M Sport. So he gets one. etc.

BMW have beem 'diluting the brand' before those who are most vocal about it were even born.

 

[hurfdurf]

rather than inevent a story about borrowing a mates once over the course of several pages of a previous thread

"Boo Hoo you could not have possibly driven a BMW sport models and found it disappointing you must have been making it up!"

It was incredibly disappointing, but then I had the expectations of a genuinely sports orientated car myth that is so much touted on this very forum.

I am aware of the need for them to exist, as I said,

The target market how ever laps them up, individuals who cannot afford or justify a real sports orientated car but have been fooled into thinking an M sport model will do as it is almost as good, when in reality it is no where near a real M car or alternative model car that was designed with performance in mind.

It is like Vauxhall needing to produce its Corsa 1.2 SXi to produce the Corsa VXR, one to sell to the plebs, the other to sell to people who want a genuinely sporty car.

 

[mrk]

Maybe the driver was just crap at...driving it


OH!

 

[[TW]Fox]

 

[Gribs]

hurfdurf is not referring to just the 4 cylinder models - he is referring to all Sport models.

In 1986, for example, you could buy a 325i Sport. This had M badges on it, inside it, but it wasn't an M Powered car. It was simply a 325i with an M-Tech body styling kit, Sports seats, M-Tech suspension and an LSD. The same was the case with the earlier E12 M535i, and then things really took off with cars like the E34 525i Sport, 535i Sport, and by the time the E36 arrived both the 328i Sport, 318iS and 318Ti Sport compact were being sold with M badges on the doors, steering wheels, wheels, etc etc and since 1996 the LSD has been replaced with ASC and later DSC.

The first 4 cylinder diesel with an M badge from the factory was the 2003 320d Sport (Later renamed 320d M Sport in late 2004 for no apparent reason).

But people shouldnt knock this - its why M cars exist. BMW don't make much if any money by flogging V8 M3's. What they do is provide a halo for the range. Mr Rep can't have an M3 as a company car because he hasn't sold enough carpet samples, but he can have a 320d M Sport. So he gets one. etc.

BMW have beem 'diluting the brand' before those who are most vocal about it were even born.

I understand why they do it but I wonder about the effect that it will have on the brand. M-sport still seems to have some sort of status but I wonder how long this will continue when every rep seems to have a 320d m-sport. Due to the gradual shift in what m-sport signifies it seems worse than Audi and their s-line "sporty" trim which imo doesn't really reflect on their proper S or RS cars.

Imo sports models should offer something other than rock hard suspension and body styling.

 

[[TW]Fox]

IMHO BMW Sport models do - they handle very well for what they are and are almost without exception the drivers choice in their respective classes.

It's Audi that simply pumps with dampers full of concrete, fits some 19's and sticks an S-Line badge on it.

 

[Gribs]

They may handle well for what they are but I don't think a 4 cylinder diesel can ever be called sporty. A friend had a rep special 320d m-sport coupe which I just didn't get. The ride was poor and though it wasn't slow it just wasn't fun. He's now got a s-line 2.0 diesel A6 which is makes absolutely no sense to me.

I'm glad my 318is doesn't have sports badges on as though it's nice to drive it's no more sporty than my Mondeo.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I am as dissapointed as you are that every other BMW on the road is a Sport model with a 4 pot diesel engine in it.

 

[Joshy]

I personally do not consider the likes of a 320d as a 'M car', despite how 'sporty' (Read: Rock Hard) the ride is and how many M badges they've decided to glue on.

An apprentice who I train with gets to borrow his bosses' 118d M Sport. It's apparently "Dead Quick" "because it is the M Sport model" and must handle brilliantly because of how stiff the suspension is . Brilliant marketing excise by BMW though.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The 118d does actually handle very well, though it cannot be described as quick.

 

[mjt]

I am as dissapointed as you are that every other BMW on the road is a Sport model with a 4 pot diesel engine in it.

Leave the UK and a Sport will be a rarity!

It's a very British ideal. 'Sporty' cars sell so much better in the UK than in the rest of Europe.
From hot hatches to Sport versions of cars, so many more are sold in the UK than elsewhere.

 

[Joshy]

The 118d does actually handle very well, though it cannot be described as quick.

I'd expect it to handle well given that they didn't seem to be much consideration for ride quality. Really, the ride was terrible.

 

[hurfdurf]

Maybe the driver was just crap at...driving it


OH!

I am far from a driving god, so if I feel a car is lacking compared to its rivals by enough that its noticeable to me, something must be lacking.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Lacking compared to its rivals?

Go on then, what did this 2001 330i Sport lack compared to a 2001 Audi A4 or a 2001 Mercedes C Class?

 

[hurfdurf]

Lacking compared to its rivals?

Go on then, what did this 2001 330i Sport lack compared to a 2001 Audi A4 or a 2001 Mercedes C Class?

Rivals was probably the wrong word, lacking compared to cars that were designed from the ground up as being sporty in the same price range, lacking compared to the M3 etc. The cars sporty credentials are grossly over stated by many.

 

[rpg]

Rivals was probably the wrong word, lacking compared to cars that were designed from the ground up as being sporty in the same price range, lacking compared to the M3 etc. The cars sporty credentials are grossly over stated by many.

I think the only person with high expectations in relation to BMW Sport model's credentials is you. Your theory that people "have been fooled into thinking an M sport model will do as it is almost as good" is ridiculous. Do you honestly think that someone with a M-Sport 320d for instance thinks their car is "almost as good" as an M3? Just because someone can't afford or justify the high performance model, doesn't mean they've been fooled into thinking it's "almost as good". They know exactly what they're buying.

Everyone knows that a Sport model (no matter what the manufacturer) can't be compared to the high performance model of that range. It's just meant to offer a more sporty exterior coupled with minor suspension changes compared to standard models. If you think it's meant to compare to the high performance model, then you're the one that's been fooled.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Rivals was probably the wrong word, lacking compared to cars that were designed from the ground up as being sporty in the same price range, lacking compared to the M3 etc. The cars sporty credentials are grossly over stated by many.

Nobody but you actually beleives this, and infact we dont truely know what you actually beleive, so much has been mixed up in your trolling intention since the fateful RX8 thread.

Nobody thinks a 330i Sport, for example, is basically an M3. Nobody thinks its almost as fast. Everyone knows there is a difference and you'll find me in every thread where some donut suggests an M3 over a 330i explaining how such car is in another league in every possible way.

You seem to think this fact detracts from the cars ability in its own right. It doesn't. It remains the fact they are great drivers cars. The fact an M3 is even better doesn't change this.

 

[ubersonic]

Hopefully the New BMW "Supercar" will change their image and put them up there with ferrari and the like.

Highly unlikely TBH, Honda's NSX supercar was a stone cold Ferrari killer, it could beat their entire line up at the time bar the F40 yet you don't hear people talking about Honda and Ferrari in the same light today do you?