Public sector pay freeze

[FishFluff]

I think you are out of order.

Given that my pay was already frozen last year and that we've seen our workload triple in the last couple of years I'll feel free to call you on being mean spirited and wishing doom on all public sector workers thanks. I sick of the attitude of people like yourself. "I've had bad times at work, I wish I worked in the public sector where everything is made of rainbows and unicorns". If it's so ****ing marvelous then why don't you get a public sector job instead of wishing gloom on others? After all there's apparently several million public sector jobs available and you can be completely incompetent and never fired right? Right???

Wrong.

Just because you've read in the papers that public sector workers get paid shedloads more and can never ever be fired or made redundant doesn't make it true. A lot of us could get more in the private sector but choose not to because we like to think that what we do actually has some kind of benefit to society as a whole. It doesn't mean that we should have to take crap from people who read a stupid headline and decide we're flavour of the week to have a go at.

So no, I don't think I'm out of order thanks. It sucks that you were fired but how is wishing misery on others going to improve your lot?

 

[Raumarik]

There are useless staff in every public sector department, if I was able to I could cut staff in mine and increase productivity as some staff seem to be a barrier for change, with the ear of their manager who won't act without their OK.

It's the same all over the place, anyone with motivation quickly finds they have to drop any sizable ideas and try to get the little things done first. A lot of national standards tend to be over the top, especially when it comes to encryption. I know they're simply running scared of the media but at times it seems we're burning money to prevent the inevitable - that staff will lose equipment and regardless of how well it's encrypted the newspapers will have a field day anyway. It's not the encryption that's the problem, it's the fact that it's been lost in the first place. Blame the IT, but lets not point the finger at staff, who should be sacked for being careless with information and equipment.

 

[robgmun]

We did have a pay freeze for two years and then was made redundant as they shipped our work off to China. I know exactly how it feels as do many many private sector employees for the past couple of years. It is time the public sector shared in the pain, end of.

Couldn't put it better my self better, i've had a pay freeze too for 2 years, why should i suffer alone one this?

 

[Biohazard]

Nobody expects them to be happy, but they should be thankful that they have a job at all. Certainly they have no right to be angry or to feel hard done by. The public sector has expanded too much under Labour and its size and cost simply cannot be sustained.

This sort of sentiment is garbage.

Lucky to have a job at all?

Are you another who thinks government can operate with no government workers?

 

[[TW]Fox]

I thought that - surely there is no 'luck' involved in whether you have a job or not

 

[robgmun]

This sort of sentiment is garbage.

Lucky to have a job at all?

Are you another who thinks government can operate with no government workers?

I thought that - surely there is no 'luck' involved in whether you have a job or not

Both wrong, in the privite sector you can be hard working and deliligent, but still get made redundent, happens all the time

 

[The Mad Rapper]

Just because you've read in the papers that public sector workers get paid shedloads more and can never ever be fired or made redundant doesn't make it true.

Yes it does actually. The amount of red tape that needs to be bypassed to sack a Civil servant is insane.

 

[Biohazard]

I thought that - surely there is no 'luck' involved in whether you have a job or not

Not sure who this is directed at but I agree.

The stance from the private sector crusaders seems to be shut up and count yourself lucky there is public sector all together.

A somewhat bizarre take on things to say the least..

Both wrong, in the privite sector you can be hard working and deliligent, but still get made redundent, happens all the time

Right... and?

Nothing more?

Well I can tell you this happens in the public sector too.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Both wrong, in the privite sector you can be hard working and deliligent, but still get made redundent, happens all the time

When I worked in the public sector during my placement from Uni, there were redundancies of hard working people as well. Not sure what happened to the rainbows and unicorns when that happened. Quite a few people lost jobs.

What amuses me about this discussion so much is how the private sector has suddenly become some sort of amazing fantasy place where everyone always works really hard and puts 100% effort in. I guess we wont be seeing any more whinging moaning threads about people who have bought poor quality products, people moaning about how annoying Paypal staff are, etc etc in the future then?

 

[The Mad Rapper]

This sort of sentiment is garbage.

Lucky to have a job at all?

Are you another who thinks government can operate with no government workers?

He is right that the Public Sector is too large though.

 

[Biohazard]

He is right that the Public Sector is too large though.

Public sector is too large, that will no doubt be dealt with.

To say you (public sector workers) are lucky to have a job is nothing more than private sector hatred towards anything public sector.

 

[[TW]Fox]

He is right that the Public Sector is too large though.

Completely agree.

Not sure how a pay freeze addresses this, though

 

[RDM]

Completely agree.

Not sure how a pay freeze addresses this, though

It gives you a little breathing room so you can start making the necessary reforms to reduce the public sector and it makes the redundancy payments smaller when it finally comes to letting people go. From a purely clinical financial point of view.

 

[Biohazard]

What amuses me about this discussion so much is how the private sector has suddenly become some sort of amazing fantasy place where everyone always works really hard and puts 100% effort in. I guess we wont be seeing any more whinging moaning threads about people who have bought poor quality products, people moaning about how annoying Paypal staff are, etc etc in the future then?

Its a myth pedled by a few in here. Why I don't know, they must really love their jobs. /Shrugs.

Based on some speculative rubbish on statstics, and 'ethos'.

The truth is there are just as many bad businesses as good, and the private sector is actually a massive beneficiary of the public sector - more so when it is bloated.

Any moves made to tackle public sector growth is going to have to be met by similar developments in the private sector who have grown far too used to easy reliable, heavily profitable contracts that are simple to obtain/retain.

 

[Rameses]

My 2p.

When I was in Health public sector the amount of managers to actual admin staff was so out of balance. One particular wing had 2 admin staff and like 9-11 'Managers'

These managers were manager of a particular health problem, instead of all working together and perhaps lowering the number of 'manager' roles they could afford to get admin staff in and actually get more work done....

I felt so sorry for those admin staff who were getting work dumped on them by people who, because they had 'Manager' in their role title they felt they should have their own admin team.....so laid back and lazy and by far less intelligent than the admin staff.

I would say, imo that the ratio was like 70% Manager/Supervisor/Deputy and 30% actual admin left to do the work.

I so wish I could head up that organisation, so many changes needed.....they even have a Social Media Manager role too.....

 

[Bear]

Given that my pay was already frozen last year and that we've seen our workload triple in the last couple of years I'll feel free to call you on being mean spirited and wishing doom on all public sector workers thanks. I sick of the attitude of people like yourself. "I've had bad times at work, I wish I worked in the public sector where everything is made of rainbows and unicorns". If it's so ****ing marvelous then why don't you get a public sector job instead of wishing gloom on others? After all there's apparently several million public sector jobs available and you can be completely incompetent and never fired right? Right???

Wrong.

Just because you've read in the papers that public sector workers get paid shedloads more and can never ever be fired or made redundant doesn't make it true. A lot of us could get more in the private sector but choose not to because we like to think that what we do actually has some kind of benefit to society as a whole. It doesn't mean that we should have to take crap from people who read a stupid headline and decide we're flavour of the week to have a go at.

So no, I don't think I'm out of order thanks. It sucks that you were fired but how is wishing misery on others going to improve your lot?

I wasnt being mean spirited at all. I was replying to someone who questioned how you would feel about having your pay frozen. I replied that I already have and lost my job and that I think its about time the public sector also felt the pain (I meant via pay freezes although I thought this was obvious concerning the reply and the nature of the OP). I didnt mention anything about losing jobs, that is something you chose to read into it.

So yes you are being out of order, you are putting words into my mouth and went off in a rant. I ask you to read again what I wrote in reply to the post and see where I was wishing misery on others, after all the whole thread is based on pay freezes, something I dont think is unreasonable considering the public finances.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I replied that I already have and lost my job and that I think its about time the public sector also felt the pain

You presumaby lost your job becuase there wasn't the work for the company to justify retaining you. The public sector has not seen a similar reduction on workload, so I am curious as to why you think it also deserves to share your 'pain'?

Lets imagine for a moment there was suddenly a huge reduction in accidents and as a result, there just wasnt the work for a large proportion of the NHS. Many were made redundant. Would you be happy to share the pain of these people and perhaps take a pay cut even though your workload was fine?

 

[Sukh]

Also Sukh, yes pensions for public sector jobs are a little out of hand but, likewise it also helps prevent a generation of poor pensioners. Pension funds now have taken insane hits in the last couple years, lots of funds could essentially be wiped out and you could have millions of old people with literally no money, what are we going to do, let them all starve to death, no they'll end up with state pensions also. The fact is society has to pay for their elderly, society just doesn't want to, neither do they want to pay for the disabled or anyone else in need, though fairly don't want to pay for scum to sit around doing nothing.

I'm happy to pay for the disabled as it happens, but saying public sector pensions are a little out of hand is an under-exaggeration.

The structural deficit is circa 6bn and of that 1bn is the pension deficit. Therefore the pension deficit is 1/6 of the problem and could be wiped out if it was fund/pool instead of tax payer funded.

 

[Bear]

You presumaby lost your job becuase there wasn't the work for the company to justify retaining you. The public sector has not seen a similar reduction on workload, so I am curious as to why you think it also deserves to share your 'pain'?

Not at all. The work was there but the private equity firm that owned us thought buying parts from China was a better bet due to the increase in profit they would gain. You cant fault the financials side of it for sure, only the quality has dropped and customers are now turning away.

The public sector doesnt need to share MY pain at all, they need to share THE pain because with many people becoming unemployed from the private sector, there are ever decreasing amounts of private sector workers paying in tax, and therefore less money to provide for the public sector. It is something that is not sustainable therefore if pay freezes is the way to sort it out then yes they have to share the pain. If they wont accept pay freezes then the only other option is for job cuts. Of course we can carry on as normal but the public finances will not allow that unless you believe in the Labour mode of operation.

edit: I didnt see you also added a bit to your post. If my employer asked me to take a pay cut because otherwise it would mean redundancies then yes I would take a pay cut, but I do it on the knowledge that I can afford to and appreciate this. I also understand that others cant afford a pay cut so the descision would be theirs to make.

 

[Mad old tory]

Yeh, well the current Band 5 has 8 Pay points so thats 8 Years before you even get to the top of a 5 and no doubt you didn't start on a band 5 coming in to the profession probably. To Reach the top of my current pay point would take me another 7 Years and ive already worked 9 years in the NHS.

These throw away comments you hear from people and the media are funny because they quote top end pay points for jobs that most people (a) aren't on and (b) if they are on have taken probably close to 15 - 20 years to get to.

Media has a lot to answer for imo.

The debate has no doubt moved on from here and turned into a slagging match but you've summed up something that really annoys me about the public sector in particular in your first paragraph and that's the seeming lack of meritocracy in the public sector.

Why does it automatically take you 8 years to reach a grade?

If you're good, can you not jump points to reward your performance, and likewise if you're below average do you get held back on points or does it just go up a point at a time regardless?