Welsh Independance

eddiemcgarrigle · 26 Jun 2010 at 17:54

Edward01 said:
... Or we can fight it out again

Yes, lets fight it out again. I predict another Stirling Bridge.

Tefal · 26 Jun 2010 at 17:54

Gaidin109 said:
Not of the one Biodegradable is on about anyway. Can't say I take any of the threads that seriously tbh.

of this one you great pudding

Biohazard · 26 Jun 2010 at 17:55

eddiemcgarrigle said:
Yes, lets fight it out again. I predict another Stirling Bridge.

I've already got my targe crossbow and claymore..

Yas786 · 26 Jun 2010 at 17:59

Funnily enough the same sort of thing almost happened in Canada a number of yrs ago...Quebec the frenech speaking part of Canada wanted independance from Canada

...suffice to say it didnt happen as if it did happen...Quebec wouldnt have lasted more than 6mths before they came crawling back to re-join Canada.

Personally i was of the opinion that Canada should have let them have independance and let them rot

Raumarik · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:02

Good grief why is it the instant anyone mentions independence the talk is of Scotland? The OP was talking about WALES! Now we have a few OCUK argue-maniacs bashing e-penises like every vague England V Scotland thread.

platypus · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:07

Biohazard, what do you think of the SNPs manifesto commitment to hold a referendum on independence by 2010?

platypus · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:09

Halfmad said:
Good grief why is it the instant anyone mentions independence the talk is of Scotland? The OP was talking about WALES! Now we have a few OCUK argue-maniacs bashing e-penises like every vague England V Scotland thread.

I would have thought that was obvious? The case of one country's accedence to independence within the United Kingdom surely affects any other country.

The reasons for wanting independence are surely similar in many cases, whilst there are obviously specific reasons as well, I think any debate would wish to look at the other countries within the union, wouldn't it? Otherwise how would it present a reasonable argument?

Biohazard · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:10

platypus said:
Biohazard, what do you think of the SNPs manifesto commitment to hold a referendum on independence by 2010?

Not exactly about wales much is it?

But anyway, optimistic would be one way of putting it if you mean do you expect a majority at referendum.

In saying as such, it would give a proper indication of support and those who don't. Doesn't mean that it can't be looked at again.

Scottish devolution had more than one referendum before that took place.

I think they actually made a mistake in trying to include it in a first term, they should have concentrated more on governance and then once hopefully having gained a second term I would have thought that then would be a more appropriate time and approach.

That's what I'd do anyway.

Can I also point out something else that is more often over looked or purposfully ignored by many pro-unionists, just because someone is pro-independent that does not mean they necessarily follow the respective national party to its every word and belief, if they even follow them at all.

Azza · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:11

Well seen as this thread like most others has gone off course seen as everyone has started going on about ****ing Scotland. :confused:

WALES > SCOTLAND > ENGLAND

Biohazard · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:13

Azza said:
SCOTLAND > WALES > ENGLAND

And we can agree to disagree?

Ahleckz · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:13

I went to Wales once, bought a wee little flag on a stick.
Nice place.

aln · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:14

They should just move parliment to the Isle of Man and be done with it. Right in the middle, all even then, no complaints.

Gaidin109 · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:15

Biohazard said:
Getting forgetfull are we?

It was the General Election 2010 TV Debate thread.

You can't even remember what the debate was about! Yet I am the one who is mistaken? Ha!

I never forget a single detail Gaiden, don't you forget that in future son.

Found it.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18123692&highlight=username_gaidin109&page=8

It seem you took humbrage to my wording which I clarified after you asked me to do so.

Gaidin109 said:
Scotland is not a separate sovereign state, so while culturally it is a nation, it is not an independent Country, neither is it a sovereign State.

Scotland has no independent recognition externally from the UK, it has no Embassies in other Countries. The UK Govt retain all power over the Scotland politically (devolution is can be repealed at any time). Powers are granted to Scotland by Westminister, not relinguished by them.

So while Scotland is a Nation, it is also a region of the United Kingdom, as it is an adminstrative territory of the UK.

Each nation within the UK is also sub-divided into political regions etc, but as I was using the term Region in it's descriptive sense rather than a political one, just as you could say England is a region of the UK, or that the UK is a region of Europe and so on. You are just being pedantic.

The highlighted sentence is the one I added to clarify my position, after your pedantic attempt to discredit a perfectly true statement as to Scotlands international position.

Biohazard said:
Can you clarify the first sentence?

What exactly is "independent recognition externally from the UK"?

An example of what this might be please.

Scotland is a country, just not an independent one. It entered into political arrangement by its own agreement. Or by going with your analysis, England isn't a country either. The truth is, Scotland is one of four countries which form the unitary state of the United Kingdom, along with England, Northern Ireland, and Wales.

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/vli/publicInfo/faq/category2.htm

Biohazard · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:16

aln said:
They should just move parliment to the Isle of Man and be done with it. Right in the middle, all even then, no complaints.

But they have their own parliament!!

platypus · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:16

Looking at figures for a small moment, if we where to grant full independence to the countries within the Union, we would save £54Bn. A not insignificant amount, especially given our predicament.

I don't want to grant independence to any of the Union because I'm proud to be British, and proud of Great Britain. However, I can see the advantage in doing it, and given the general animosity from the other home countries towards England part of me does wish we'd just get it over and done with. I'm a proud Englishman as well.

Biohazard · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:16

Gaidin109 said:
snip.

Doesn't matter, you went back and changed that text from what you had originally said.

Posting the text that you replaced it with means nothing.

Gaidin109 said:
I agree in common usage Scotland and the other nations that make up the UK are refered to as countries, my wording wasn't very clear. I'll clear it up.

So you are still a liar.

And very prone to obfuscating matters.

aln · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:18

Biohazard said:
But they have their own parliament!!

I'm sure they wouldnt mind inheriting some more land

platypus · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:20

Biohazard said:
Not exactly about wales much is it?

No it isn't, but putting your spat with Gaidin aside for a moment, I think any debate about independence should involve all the home nations, to a certain degree, because it is all very relevant.

But anyway, optimistic would be one way of putting it if you mean do you expect a majority at referendum.

In saying as such, it would give a proper indication of support and those who don't. Doesn't mean that it can't be looked at again.

Scottish devolution had more than one referendum before that took place.

I think they actually made a mistake in trying to include it in a first term, they should have concentrated more on governance and then once hopefully having gained a second term I would have thought that then would be a more appropriate time and approach.

That's what I'd do anyway.

Yes sorry I meant to say what you thought of its chances. You're for Scottish accedence I take it?

Can I also point out something else that is more often over looked or purposfully ignored by many pro-unionists, just because someone is pro-independent that does not mean they necessarily follow the respective national party to its every word and belief, if they even follow them at all.

No I didn't do you the disservice of assuming that about you.

Biohazard · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:20

platypus said:
Looking at figures for a small moment, if we where to grant full independence to the countries within the Union, we would save £54Bn. A not insignificant amount, especially given our predicament.

I don't want to grant independence to any of the Union because I'm proud to be British, and proud of Great Britain. However, I can see the advantage in doing it, and given the general animosity from the other home countries towards England part of me does wish we'd just get it over and done with. I'm a proud Englishman as well.

I think the benefits outway the cons.

£54bn is a significant amount for England in my books.

Biohazard · 26 Jun 2010 at 18:22

platypus said:
No it isn't, but putting your spat with Gaidin aside for a moment, I think any debate about independence should involve all the home nations, to a certain degree, because it is all very relevant.

Yes sorry I meant to say what you thought of its chances. You're for Scottish accedence I take it?

No I didn't do you the disservice of assuming that about you.

No no I'm not getting tetchy just trying to keep in mind the wishes of the OP.

Of course I am, its a democratic right. One that we are keen to impose on foreign sovereignties.

Neither was that directly personally at you, it was more a general statement.