Lawn Experts - need help

Jez

Jez

Jez

Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
33,073
I have a very bad lawn at a house which i am soon to be letting. The garden is surrounded by decent enough hedges, and i just want to lay the whole thing to grass.

It currently consists of uneven stony ground, which was previously 6 foot high in weeds and wild grass. I have strimmed and mown it down, but what is left is absolutely unsalvageable. If i leave it huge weeds cover the area again within a week or so.

I need to plant a lawn from scratch on the land.

My n00b plan, was to hire or possibly buy a tiller/rotorvator. Then use this to completely dig the lawn up. I was then thinking i would use a weed killer over the whole area to "sterilise" the ground, rake out as much of the dead debris and stones as i can, then roll the ground flat again, and plant a ton of grass seed.

Following this i would leave a sprinkler on it until the new grass grows. Summer surely ideal with the heat as long as i keep it well watered?

What i am after really, are tips on how to go about preparing the ground, and replanting the lawn. Including what type of seed i should buy, and what type of weed killer i should use to sterilise the ground before hand.

Tips in all shapes and sizes really :) Many Thanks.
 
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Thanks for those links :)

http://www.gardenersworld.com/how-to/projects/lawn-care-renovation/

This is effectively what i want to do, but i wasnt planning on turf. I was also thinking that i should be killing everything currently in situ.

I am checking out as many links as i can, what i am after is anybody's real world tips and guidance. The guides all make it look really easy, but do not show long term results and problems encountered as a DIY n00b.
 
You need to firstly take into consideration why the lawn is "really bad", and deal with that problem - eg overhanging trees, poor soil, weeds, poor light (granted you can't do much about that but you can plan your new lawn accordingly), etc.

You need to do it in autumn. Hire a vertical mower, and mow the entire area to be grassed. You might need to rake off thick patches of grass, but basically break the soil up as much as possible. Dig it over a couple of times with a spade/fork. Alternatives to a vertical mower are to do it entirely by hand, but its a hell of a lot of work.

Prior to seeding, soak the area so that it is saturated to a depth of ~8 inches. Get yourself some fertiliser that is high in nitrogen and potassium (or add some to a good all round fertiliser), and then dig in and fork the area again once its dried out a bit (but still at least damp).

If its a big enough area, hire a rotary spreader, otherwise just do it by hand. Divide the area (use string tied to sticks) into quarters, and do it a quarter at a time, seeding both horizontally and vertically.

Once thats done, water lightly twice a day (never during high sunlight hours, morning <8am and evening >7pm is best), but don't saturate it.

When its about four inches long, mow it to about two inches, and bobs your uncle, you should have a well bedded lawn.
 
platypus said:
You need to firstly take into consideration why the lawn is "really bad", and deal with that problem - eg overhanging trees, poor soil, weeds, poor light (granted you can't do much about that but you can plan your new lawn accordingly), etc.

You need to do it in autumn. .
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The reason it has got bad is that the house was repossed, and before i purchased it, it had been sat for approximately a year, in that time the gardens became very overgrown, and huge 6' weeds covered the ground.

I sadly cannot wait until autumn really, i need to get this house on the market, and the lawn really needs sorting. Although not ideal, surely grass seed will grow through summer given plenty of water? :)
 
Jez said:
I sadly cannot wait until autumn really, i need to get this house on the market, and the lawn really needs sorting. Although not ideal, surely grass seed will grow through summer given plenty of water? :)
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Well given that its overgrown you're going to need to do a lot of weeding, and an awful lot of digging out - especially as you want a new lawn on top of it (this is where turf would be better) - new grass can easily be killed by only a few weeds left behind.

The problem with doing it during summer (not sure where you are but here we're forecast a hot summer, and it's certainly getting there) is that you risk killing the new grass by a few means; boiling the new seed or scorching the early growth due to the heat of the sun. The fact that you need to keep the soil well watered (certainly in the initial stages) only adds to the danger of killing your lawn before it can grow properly.

As you're on a short time scale, you might be best considering turf.
 
I am fast coming to the same conclusion, in your opinion would you say that turf is likely to withstand being layed in the summer heat? I guess i dont mind buying it, but if it all dies i will be understandably annoyed at the situation!

My questions in this event comes back to how i should prepare the ground for turfing, looking at the guides a tiller seems the best approach along with some top soil, but should i treat the area first in your opinion with some form of weed killer? :)
 
Jez said:
I am fast coming to the same conclusion, in your opinion would you say that turf is likely to withstand being layed in the summer heat? I guess i dont mind buying it, but if it all dies i will be understandably annoyed at the situation!

My questions in this event comes back to how i should prepare the ground for turfing, looking at the guides a tiller seems the best approach along with some top soil, but should i treat the area first in your opinion with some form of weed killer? :)
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i turned my lawn not long ago, and aso long as you water it twice aday for the first few weesk you will be fine.
 
Growing a lawn in summer is always a risk - turf or seed. Turf stands a better chance because the hard work of germinating the seed has been done, but you're still not guaranteed (eg if temperatures exceed 30oC you would be very lucky to get a complete lawn without burnt patches) to get a healthy lawn.

Another option might be turfing, then aerating the lawn and seeding that.

I would steer clear of weed killer, in every case - I've never used it and never will. Again with a tight time scale you might not have much choice - it depends what type of weeds you've got though (eg Bindweed you'll have a hell of a time getting out properly in any short space of time).

I would spend a weekend digging it out properly (if you were close to Cambridge I'd offer to help ;)), then yes a tiller can be a good time saver.

Prepare for turfing the same you would seeding, although you probably only need to saturate to a depth of 4-5 inches in the case of turf (although more doesn't hurt). Till the soil with fertiliser + nitrogen + potassium, and then water the turf lightly once its been laid, again not during high sun hours.
 
OK, great. I think given the cost of seed vs turf, i will till it all, spend some decent time removing any roots and debris, add fertiliser as you mention, then try some seed. If the seed proves an issue i will go the turf root.

You think weed killer is a bad idea then? I didnt know whether to bother, and was concerned about using it with regards to the hedges and timescales to allow it to dissipate, if you dont think its worth doing then that saves time :)
 
Jez said:
OK, great. I think given the cost of seed vs turf, i will till it all, spend some decent time removing any roots and debris, add fertiliser as you mention, then try some seed. If the seed proves an issue i will go the turf root.

You think weed killer is a bad idea then? I didnt know whether to bother, and was concerned about using it with regards to the hedges and timescales to allow it to dissipate, if you dont think its worth doing then that saves time :)
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I just think it's a bad idea in all cases. The stuff thats in them is only ultimately going one place: your soil. You've got no idea at all where the stuff will end up, as it's leached throughout the soil via various methods.

Ok if you spray a small area with weed killer you're unlikely to have too many repercussions in the long run, but I think its bad practise - weed killer is at the end of the day toxic to plants, and if you use it it's getting into the water base.

You could, if you can be bothered, use safe methods - boiling water is good, but requires a lot of trips from the kitchen and is costly on energy usage, similarly Vinegar (mixed with a little detergent) is a great organic weed killer. But seriously, just roll your sleeves up and dig the soil - it is good for it!
 
platypus said:
I just think it's a bad idea in all cases. The stuff thats in them is only ultimately going one place: your soil. You've got no idea at all where the stuff will end up, as it's leached throughout the soil via various methods.

Ok if you spray a small area with weed killer you're unlikely to have too many repercussions in the long run, but I think its bad practise - weed killer is at the end of the day toxic to plants, and if you use it it's getting into the water base.

You could, if you can be bothered, use safe methods - boiling water is good, but requires a lot of trips from the kitchen and is costly on energy usage, similarly Vinegar (mixed with a little detergent) is a great organic weed killer. But seriously, just roll your sleeves up and dig the soil - it is good for it!
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Thanks again for the insight, i have just ordered a tiller. I will get to work as soon as it arrives. This lawn WILL look good if its the last thing i do :p Its the only thing really letting the house down now. :)
 
Digging it will take literally years, i need to soften the ground first anyway, its utterly baked. :(
 
Hire a vertical mower and rotovator. Clear the land. Roll it flat and get turf delivered, lay turf, water well = a nice lawn.
 
This is what I'd do towards autumn:

  • Spray the whole lawn with Round-up to kill everything
  • Rent a rotovator and dig it all up and remove as many big rocks as you can.
  • Use rakes to try and level everything out to an even surface.
  • Get a lawn roller you can fill with water for weight and roll it out flat and even.
  • You might want to take a soil sample to a garden centre and have them check the PH level, and buy whatever you need to adjust it as necessary.
  • Spread some high quality grass seed.
  • Cover with a light covering of hay
  • Fertilize
  • Make sure it gets water everyday

Then fertilize it again in the spring and autumn next year. Cut it often and cut it high. I like to keep mine over 3" because it shades out the weeds and keeps the roots healthy.

If it's a very small lawn I'd probably just re-sod it instead.
 
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