Advice on starting an I.T career

Relentless81 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:48

Dj_Jestar said:
You need to notice what is right under your nose. You have applied for countless jobs, yet you still haven't had any success. So what do you think is to blame? All of those companies, who probably receive hundreds of applications for each job? Or the person applying for them? (Or, to be more exact, the method/approach in which the person is applying for them)

I've only ever needed to fill out one application form when applying for a job, and that was for Currys when I was sixteen. Since then, it's only ever been my CV sent to them, be it directly or via an agency.

You can't just sit there, fill out some application forms, see them all become fruitless, then just decree getting a new job an impossibility, you need to try something else. It is much, much easier to find a job in IT (particularly if you already are in IT) than many seem to think. IT is very much on the up at the moment, companies need IT and software to save money to pay back those debts. Recessions are good for the IT market.

So instead of being smug why dont you share what you did to make you so succesful as I honestly cant see why I am so unlucky, its not my experiance, it could be lack of Microsoft qualifications but i'd sooner change career before doing those and its been mentioned time and time again that qualifications arent always required and experiance is, so seriously instead of sitting there behind your monitor acting smug and mocking, why not share the delights?

Ev0 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:52

I think the first thing to ask is, what is it you currently do, and what is it you want to do? What type of jobs are you applying for?

Sadly generic AD/MS admin/engineer jobs will attract a hell of a lot of people to apply as it's something a lot of people do, and can do with little knowledge and training. These are the jobs where you need something that makes you stand out from the rest.

My advise would be to specialise slightly in a technology that maybe isn't as popular, Sharepoint, SCCM, even Exchange (although am guessing still lots and lots of people who do this...) if supporting MS stuff is your thing.

Dj_Jestar · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:52

Relentless81 said:
So instead of being smug why dont you share what you did to make you so succesful as I honestly cant see why I am so unlucky, its not my experiance, it could be lack of Microsoft qualifications but i'd sooner change career before doing those and its been mentioned time and time again that qualifications arent always required and experiance is, so seriously instead of sitting there behind your monitor acting smug and mocking, why not share the delights?

I just did

To reiterate though, contact an agency. There are a million to choose from, some crap, some good. A decent agency will help you spruce up your CV, prepare you for interviews, and find you job vacancies.

Relentless81 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:53

Dj_Jestar said:
I just did To reiterate though, contact an agency. There are a million to choose from, some crap, some good. A decent agency will help you spruce up your CV, prepare you for interviews, and find you job vacancies.

I give up

Mr^B · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:54

What's wrong with contacting an agency? That's how I got my previous job.

Dj_Jestar · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:55

Relentless81 said:
I give up

And there-in lies your problem. The world doesn't owe you anything, it's not suddenly going to say "I'm going to find that job Relentless81 wants, and give it to him". No sir, it's up to you to put in the effort to first find that job, then make it your's.

Relentless81 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:55

Dj_Jestar said:
And there-in lies your problem.

I've already explained. If you had bothered to read anything I have previously said you will know that I have spoken to countless agencies only to never hear anything back

Ev0 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:56

Have you actually contacted an agency, spoken to them about what you're after, get their help etc, or have you just applied for jobs that agencies have had going?

Relentless81 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:58

Ev0 said:
Have you actually contacted an agency, spoken to them about what you're after, get their help etc, or have you just applied for jobs that agencies have had going?

Both, but admittidly more so on the applying for jobs

To be honest sorting the ****e agencies from the decent ones is a problem in itself, any recomendations for Manchester area would be great google brings up all sorts of time wasting crap

Dazzy_G · 6 Jul 2010 at 13:00

Guest2 said:
Go to university - have fun get a degree in something like computing, business computing or computer science. Do a course with a sandwich year and get the 1 year of experience from that then go from there.

i wish it was that easy, I've been trying for a year to get a permanent position

Mr^B · 6 Jul 2010 at 13:11

Dazzy_G said:
i wish it was that easy, I've been trying for a year to get a permanent position

What uni/degree/grade and what sort of jobs have you been applying for?

Ev0 · 6 Jul 2010 at 13:12

Relentless81 said:
Both, but admittidly more so on the applying for jobs

To be honest sorting the ****e agencies from the decent ones is a problem in itself, any recomendations for Manchester area would be great google brings up all sorts of time wasting crap

Don't know about anyone up there, but definitely find a decent enough agency and speak to them about finding you something.

Relentless81 · 6 Jul 2010 at 13:18

Ev0 said:
Don't know about anyone up there, but definitely find a decent enough agency and speak to them about finding you something.

I will, thanks.

Going off the info here it looks like agencies are the best bet and its not something i've fully exploited so i'll get on it.

JHeaton · 6 Jul 2010 at 14:33

Dj_Jestar said:
Become a Software Developer and then laugh at the pitiful fools who chose to be sys admins, as you have endless interesting challenges to face day after day, whilst they just sit there resetting people's passwords all day long

/smug

If you don't mind me asking, what path did you take to get in to software development? It's something I'm looking in to at the moment, though it really all depends on how the next couple of months go.

Dj_Jestar · 6 Jul 2010 at 14:53

JHeaton said:
If you don't mind me asking, what path did you take to get in to software development? It's something I'm looking in to at the moment, though it really all depends on how the next couple of months go.

Personally I took the long road. I started an apprenticeship in Developing IT for EDS, which had the odd bit of development work in, but in my own time self-taught er.. myself by garnering information from the web (forums, tutorial sites) and books from authors like The Gang Of Four, Kent Beck, Martin Fowler, etc. and eventually dabbling into a bit of freelance work. Then once I was satisfied I had enough programming experience under my belt, I applied for development roles.

I'd like to point out that it would be worthwhile learning very advantageous development habits like TDD from the get-go. Basically, lots of reading and trying things out

Dazzy_G · 6 Jul 2010 at 14:59

Mr^B said:
What uni/degree/grade and what sort of jobs have you been applying for?

University of Kent/ Comp Sci with YII/2:2 applying for grad developer schemes in OO languages

I've had a few interviews and a fair amount of interest from recruiters but nothing ever comes of it.

oldbag · 6 Jul 2010 at 15:10

If I started again it would be accountancy or law. IT is long hours and low pay (even after lots of knowledge) and not much recognition except when the other person knows/cares what's involved.

oldbag · 6 Jul 2010 at 15:14

I also think that too many people went into IT which devalued salaries, plus there are slot of idiots in IT who don't know what they are doing which probably accounts for the lack of respect for the role (that I've seen anyway)

JHeaton · 6 Jul 2010 at 15:15

Dj_Jestar said:
Personally I took the long road. I started an apprenticeship in Developing IT for EDS, which had the odd bit of development work in, but in my own time self-taught er.. myself by garnering information from the web (forums, tutorial sites) and books from authors like The Gang Of Four, Kent Beck, Martin Fowler, etc. and eventually dabbling into a bit of freelance work. Then once I was satisfied I had enough programming experience under my belt, I applied for development roles.

I'd like to point out that it would be worthwhile learning very advantageous development habits like TDD from the get-go. Basically, lots of reading and trying things out

Cool

I'm mostly learning in my own time, which is slow-going at the moment, although I've just been given a couple of projects to do at work. The downside to that is it's using VB and I'm not really keen on it, having spent my time learning Perl, Java and C# at home >.<

Thanks for that

LiE · 6 Jul 2010 at 15:16

oldbag said:
If I started again it would be accountancy or law. IT is long hours and low pay (even after lots of knowledge) and not much recognition except when the other person knows/cares what's involved.

It really depends on what area of IT your in, there are so many it's difficult to paint a clear picture. I work as a technical consultant with IBM software, and the more I know the more I earn. I've only been in this area for 3 years and already earning a nice wage.

oldbag said:
I also think that too many people went into IT which devalued salaries, plus there are slot of idiots in IT who don't know what they are doing which probably accounts for the lack of respect for the role (that I've seen anyway)

Again, it depends on the area. I think you are referring to generic IT i.e systems admin, support etc. The key is to get into a more niche/specialised role as I mentioned.