Life in post-Labour Britain

Captain_Slick said:
This actually does exist, in a manner of sorts. Where do you think credit comes from in the first place? It's simply an entry in the balance sheet of the bank and since credit has become such an integral part of the world economy, it is here to stay.
Click to expand...

It isn't infinite, unless you want to trash the economy, and it certainly isn't sustainable to use it constantly...

One of the key things about credit is the need to pay it back at some point ;)
 
Dolph said:
It isn't infinite, unless you want to trash the economy, and it certainly isn't sustainable to use it constantly...

One of the key things about credit is the need to pay it back at some point ;)
Click to expand...

Well of course, but to say that it doesn't exist is just false. You gotta keep watering and feeding that tree. ¬_¬
 
Captain_Slick said:
Well of course, but to say that it doesn't exist is just false.
Click to expand...

It doesn't exist in the way that Labour (old and new) want to use it, that's for sure. There's a reason why all the periods of fiscal consolidation following sovereign debt/deficit explosions since the war have been following a period of Labour in power...

Remember, Labour doubled the debt in 10 years, with half of that expansion coming during the boom, not the bust. Imagine how much better we would be now if we had been saving, instead of spending, during that time.
 
Not much change to be honest. I'm a recent graduate and I'm the same position other graduates were in last year when Labour was in power.

The only difference now from before the election is that I'm living with the parents but that was always going to happen anyway.
 
Dolph said:
Remember, Labour doubled the debt in 10 years, with half of that expansion coming during the boom, not the bust. Imagine how much better we would be now if we had been saving, instead of spending, during that time.
Click to expand...

Imagine how much better we'd be if the Tories hadn't made our economy so reliant on the financial sector. Why is there no criticism of this? Afterall, a healthy (or token) surplus carried by Iceland, Spain and Ireland on their balance sheets didn't really help them out all that much did it?
 
Floogie said:
Imagine how much better we'd be if the Tories hadn't made our economy so reliant on the financial sector. Why is there no criticism of this? Afterall, a healthy (or token) surplus carried by Iceland, Spain and Ireland on their balance sheets didn't really help them out all that much did it?
Click to expand...

Erm, it was Labour, not the tories, who dismantled regulation and changed various rules to make us even more dependent on the financial sector...

Or had you conveniently forgotten that bit?
 
Jokester said:
They were indeed, but it was the Labour government that abused them massively as they shifted the liabilities off the public debt record, to the tune of £60billion.
Click to expand...

LOL we can sum up PFI as good when the Conservatives do it, bad when Labour does it. At least OCUK hasn't changed since the OP left.

We're starting to the colour of Cameron's party being nailed to the mast. Whether it be managing the cancellation of crumbling schools rebuilds in the most callous way possible, to annoying our allies with on the hoof foreign policy decisions, to bringing in a tax cheat billionaire to decide where the axe should fall on public services (oh how we mocked when Brown did the same thing with Sir Alan Sugar - who isn't actually a tax cheat as far as I know).
 
scorza said:
LOL we can sum up PFI as good when the Conservatives do it, bad when Labour does it. At least OCUK hasn't changed since the OP left.
Click to expand...

PFI has always been a bad idea, all the problems of both public and private development with none of the benefits of either.

We're starting to the colour of Cameron's party being nailed to the mast. Whether it be managing the cancellation of crumbling schools rebuilds in the most callous way possible, to annoying our allies with on the hoof foreign policy decisions, to bringing in a tax cheat billionaire to decide where the axe should fall on public services (oh how we mocked when Brown did the same thing with Sir Alan Sugar - who isn't actually a tax cheat as far as I know).
Click to expand...

Where was the money coming from for the schools build?

Why do people on the left insist that tax avoidance is cheating? (is every with an ISA a tax cheat in your eyes?)
 
scorza said:
LOL we can sum up PFI as good when the Conservatives do it, bad when Labour does it. At least OCUK hasn't changed since the OP left.
Click to expand...
I never said it was a good thing, but how much of the PFI debt is Labours and how much of it is from the Major government that proceeded it? The use of PFI completely exploded once Gordon Brown became Chancellor.
 
Werewolf said:
I'm seeing various of nu labour's schemes being exposed for the scams they were...

PFI for example, it's now news that the NHS is probably going to be spending several times the value of the buildings/servicers on paying for the PFI hospitals than if they'd been done normally...(who knew that basically renting from a company that was going to make a nice profit not just on building, but managing, maintaining and financing the new hospitals would be more expensive in the long term...).

I don't agree with everything the new government is doing, but Labour look to have left us with a lot of legecy problems thanks to their habit of making decisions based on short term election promises and what the papers say, than basing them on considered expert opinions, common sense and the idea that maybe if you make a change to a system it's best to let that change come into effect before deciding it's not worked...
Click to expand...

i agree with this 100%
 
Dolph said:
It isn't infinite, unless you want to trash the economy, and it certainly isn't sustainable to use it constantly...

One of the key things about credit is the need to pay it back at some point ;)
Click to expand...

Good point, credit just creates a false economy, yeah you generate lots of sales and everyones happy but it can't last forever, it always catches up again and you can't keep bailing banks out for bad debtors.
 
Dolph said:
PFI has always been a bad idea, all the problems of both public and private development with none of the benefits of either.
Click to expand...

Having worked on both PFI and old style fixed price contracts, that is not my experience. I think the definitive argument in favour of PFI is that you can look at the way outsourced service provision in the private sector has expanded over the last decade or so, and still is.

Dolph said:
Where was the money coming from for the schools build?
Click to expand...

I'm sure it could have been found somewhere. Surely when you have a school hall that gets flooded every time there's heavy rain it needs to be fixed.

Dolph said:
Why do people on the left insist that tax avoidance is cheating? (is every with an ISA a tax cheat in your eyes?)
Click to expand...

Sorry but signing your billion pound company to your wife who is a Monaco resident is cheating. He has cheated the UK treasury out of millions of tax revenue, and for what? so he can fly his mates across the world for a hedonistic party in Barbados like he did last year? Just think, if he paid the tax that he morally owns we could afford to build schools fit for purpose for our kids.

Edit: specifics on the tax cheating claim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Green#Tax_avoidance

Taveta Investments, the company used to acquire Arcadia in 2002, is in the name of Green's wife, Cristina Green, a Monaco resident, avoiding millions of pounds in tax that would be payable if a UK resident owned the company.[19] When Green paid his family £1.2bn in 2005, it was paid for by a loan taken out by Arcadia, cutting Arcadia's corporation tax as interest charges on the loan were offset against profits.[20] In comparison, staff at Arcadia were told in 2005 that members of its final salary pension scheme must increase contributions by half and work five years longer to qualify for the same payout.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
mollymoo said:
Good point, credit just creates a false economy, yeah you generate lots of sales and everyones happy but it can't last forever, it always catches up again and you can't keep bailing banks out for bad debtors.
Click to expand...

No credit can be very good.

For example if you can borrow money at 5%, and then lend that money out to someone else at 10% - then the credit you have is actually good business. And, in that situation, of course it can last forever. You just keep taking the interest difference and laughing.

An example being Britain using its a+++ rating to borrow 1 billion, then lending it to Uganda at much higher rate. If Uganda pay us just the interest forever, wahay, money for free all thanks to lovely permanent credit. Is it really good business to, in that situation, lower a debt level?

It's how the international credit market works ...
 
mollymoo said:
Good point, credit just creates a false economy, yeah you generate lots of sales and everyones happy but it can't last forever, it always catches up again and you can't keep bailing banks out for bad debtors.
Click to expand...

I think you're misunderstanding what we mean by credit. We're not talking about loans that people take out everyday that need paying back in a few years. We're talking about trillions and trillions of dollars that are taken out on 50 year bonds and such. If you removed all the credit from the world overnight, there would be anarchy, riots and pillaging in the morning.

The problem is that nobody knows when it's going to reach that tipping point or what will happen when we do.
 
scorza said:
Having worked on both PFI and old style fixed price contracts, that is not my experience. I think the definitive argument in favour of PFI is that you can look at the way outsourced service provision in the private sector has expanded over the last decade or so, and still is.
Click to expand...

The problem is the way the public sector use PFI is not the same as outsourcing, nor are the rest of the surrounding business rules and associated inefficiencies the same. PFI type schemes work well in a competitive environment, but the competition aspect was not introduced in PFI run public sector bodies. All the problems, for example, of having a hospital monopoly in a town, remain under PFI, combined with the additional pressures of private finance.

I'm sure it could have been found somewhere. Surely when you have a school hall that gets flooded every time there's heavy rain it needs to be fixed.
Click to expand...

Of course, but that doesn't mean the future schools scheme was the right approach to take.

Sorry but signing your billion pound company to your wife who is a Monaco resident is cheating. He has cheated the UK treasury out of millions of tax revenue, and for what? so he can fly his mates across the world for a hedonistic party in Barbados like he did last year? Just think, if he paid the tax that he morally owns we could afford to build schools fit for purpose for our kids.
Click to expand...

Don't blame those who use the rules, blame those who created them. Labour had 13 years to close tax avoidance loopholes, and they didn't. It isn't cheating to structure your finances to minimise your tax liability, and it is disingenuous to continually claim otherwise.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom