do you believe in heaven?

Tombstone · 15 Aug 2010 at 02:06

cm1179 said:
this is what i'm getting at. in the grand scheme of things, to break it down like that is quite a sad realisation to me. it's almost like you may aswell break all attachments with your folks and go your own way as soon as you can cos you're only here once and once your numbers up, that's it, it didn't really matter who they were anyway be it good or bad because you've lived your life and now that's it, afterwards, there is nothing. not only parents either but siblings. are you telling me i'm supposed to accept that i live my life with these people through the connection of blood and then there's nothing after? bit hard to get my head around

I don't see why a person would need to break all attachments with someone. That doesn't make sense to me, if the person bring joy to your days then why break all attachments with them? Obviously if the person doesn't bring joy into your life then by all means break attachments, but I can't see why I would break away from something, anything at all, which brings me joy... be it a friendship, a chocolate bar, a tv show, a car...anything. I mean do we stop watching our favourite tv show just because we know it will end?, do we stop eating our favourite food halfway through because it will be gone? No, course not.

cm1179 · 15 Aug 2010 at 02:10

Tombstone said:
I don't see why a person would need to break all attachments with someone. That doesn't make sense to me, if the person bring joy to your days then why break all attachments with them? Obviously if the person doesn't bring joy into your life then by all means break attachments, but I can't see why I would break away from something, anything at all, which brings me joy... be it a friendship, a chocolate bar, a tv show, a car...anything.

my point is, in the grand scheme of things, the attachment is pretty small if there's nothing after you're gone but obviously the point of life is to make the most of it but i still can't get my head around the after part of it

doiks14 · 15 Aug 2010 at 02:11

cm1179 said:
this is what i'm getting at. in the grand scheme of things, to break it down like that is quite a sad realisation to me. it's almost like you may aswell break all attachments with your folks and go your own way as soon as you can cos you're only here once and once your numbers up, that's it, it didn't really matter who they were anyway be it good or bad because you've lived your life and now that's it, afterwards, there is nothing. not only parents either but siblings. are you telling me i'm supposed to accept that i live my life with these people through the connection of blood and then there's nothing after? bit hard to get my head around

Break attachments? Surely, if you think that life is so limited, then why not spend more time with these people and make sure that they'll remember you when you're gone..

As quoted from a film.. "We are beautiful because we are doomed", which is very much true... If you knew you'd live another life anyways, why the hell would you bother to do things to be remembered when you know that you have an eternity to make your mark.

Tombstone · 15 Aug 2010 at 02:13

cm1179 said:
my point is, in the grand scheme of things, the attachment is pretty small if there's nothing after you're gone but obviously the point of life is to make the most of it but i still can't get my head around the after part of it

Maybe its just me, I just don't see anything to get my head around. I enjoy people around me, I enjoy my life, when its over, like all things its over. Makes perfect sense to me. Nice and uniform , identical to every other living thing , flora and fauna, on the planet. I'd have more trouble getting my head around us having a different outcome to the other billions of lifeforms on earth frankly.

cheets64 · 15 Aug 2010 at 02:14

cm1179 said:
this is what i'm getting at. in the grand scheme of things, to break it down like that is quite a sad realisation to me. it's almost like you may aswell break all attachments with your folks and go your own way as soon as you can cos you're only here once and once your numbers up, that's it, it didn't really matter who they were anyway be it good or bad because you've lived your life and now that's it, afterwards, there is nothing. not only parents either but siblings. are you telling me i'm supposed to accept that i live my life with these people through the connection of blood and then there's nothing after? bit hard to get my head around

Life is unfair, the old saying because no matter what you do, how much money you, how nice you are, things will happen, loved ones get cancer, die, hate you, that is life, at the end of the day you are the one living, you can be the best dad in the world or by the lad that saves his mates in Afghan by dieing for them, life has no path but it has your decisions and make them wisely, because heaven is not some haven where you can reminisce and laugh about the oops moments.

cm1179 · 15 Aug 2010 at 02:27

doiks14 said:
Break attachments? Surely, if you think that life is so limited, then why not spend more time with these people and make sure that they'll remember you when you're gone..

i'm sure they will remember me when i'm gone (i'm not suicidal or anything

), just as i remember people who are gone but that's all they are, memories. the concept of not seeing them again once it's all gone, is something i struggle to get my head around, like it's all erased from history or existence after a certain point? look at the people who lived thousands or hundreds of thousands of years ago, the relationships they had, the lives they built and the bonds they had, now that phase has gone, to have to accept the fact that these things are just gone with nothing afterwards is a little strange to me but so is the possibility of things just going on forever afterwards

SPARC · 15 Aug 2010 at 07:36

setter said:
No, i dont even believe in god or any form of religion, dont think they have a place in modern society.

I share the same opinion as this. I honestly can't get my head around how some people can believe in a higher power. Science all the way.

You die, get put in a box and are either berried or cremated. End of.

However if heaven does turn out to be real when I die, I hope there are fire breathing whores waiting for me when I get there

.

Andrew_McP · 15 Aug 2010 at 07:53

SPARC said:
You die, get put in a box and are either berried or cremated. End of.

I definitely want to be berried and reincarnated as a bottle of Ribena. :-)

No heaven, no hell, just compost. I don't fret about what was happening in the infinite amount fo time before I was born, and I certainly don't fret about the infinite amount of time I'll spend being dead.

I do, however, worry about spending my final years locked in a hostel for poor pensioners, looked after by cheap East European labour. :->

Andrew McP

Vonhelmet · 15 Aug 2010 at 08:00

I still find it frustrating that people believe religion and science are at odds.

And I say that for both people on here and for Christians I know.

Andrew_McP · 15 Aug 2010 at 08:49

vonhelmet said:
I still find it frustrating that people believe religion and science are at odds.

It's natural, because religion is all about beliefs, and science is all about facts. Despite the touchy-feely rhetoric of the "let's all just get along!" gang who sit in the middle ground, it's is an intellectual war which will be waged over the entire course of human development.

Fortunately we'll probably commit suicide as a species long before this debate gets close to a conclusion. The cockroaches have no need of gods, which is why they will inherit the earth. :-)

Andrew McP

PapaLazaru · 15 Aug 2010 at 08:50

I don't, but would love to be proved wrong.

RDM · 15 Aug 2010 at 08:57

Andrew_McP said:
It's natural, because religion is all about beliefs, and science is all about facts.

I think the reason why you do not think science and religion can get along is because you don't really understand science. It isn't really about facts, it is more about results.

Lunatic Dreyfus · 15 Aug 2010 at 09:08

The lights go out and it's goodnight Vienna.

Heaven is an idea used to control people, or at least soften the blow of the above statement.

Spit · 15 Aug 2010 at 09:16

Holliday said:
This kind of thinking is just as bad as those who are 100% certain God exists as does Heaven. Of course there are no wrong opinions, but I think the mindset of that opinion to being the ultimate truth is completely wrong.

People don't have to believe there's an afterlife, but it's human nature to try and discover our origins and ultimately our demise.

I like how you state we're just a bunch of cells which have developed self awareness, as if that's nothing incredible. Ignoring the fact of what space actually is or where it is, I think the very idea that swirling clouds of stardust eventually lead to the formation of cells, to organisms, to complex organisms, to sounds, tastes, emotion, and then awareness to actually comprehend all the aforementioned is enough to blow your mind.

Taking the previous paragraph into consideration, I don't think it's far fetched at all to consider the possibility we can't fully comprehend or understand anything, especially life and death, we only 'think' we can, but of course we're limited to how we think.

I agree the whole process is amazing so why should there be more for us? What exists is the culmination of billions of years of evolution and people seem to omit that fact. We cannot comprehend the immensity of time involved to create.

I hold these views because even in 2010 there is not a shred of evidence that points to an afterlife. All that is written about religion etc has come from the mind of man and our fanciful imaginations to comfort us.

Speedy · 15 Aug 2010 at 11:32

WHen you're dead or asleep, you don't realize what's happening around you. Basically you'll hardly notice the time before you fall asleep and when you wake up again, unless you're dreaming. Has anyone during their sleep ever realized that you're actually sleeping?

No, because your brain is in a hibernation. The same counts when your brain is dead, you don't realize anything because your conscience is gone.

What would happen if there's no afterlife or anything? Your mind wouldn't be there anymore. So in my personal opinion I think that reincarnation is the only plausible option.

Rainmaker · 15 Aug 2010 at 11:34

It's interesting, if I may say so, that those with beliefs in a higher power of some kind, and/or an afterlife, have tended to preface their statements with "I believe", "I think" etc.

Those who profess the "you're here and you're gone" viewpoint, despite their spoken dedication to science, all seem to be saying "You are", "we will", "you do",.... all very concrete statements. I think what you mean to say is, "I don't know" or "I don't think so, but..."?

Science and religion never need be at odds. Anyone who says otherewise is pretty much deluding themselves tbh.

Hatter The Mad · 15 Aug 2010 at 11:41

vonhelmet said:
I still find it frustrating that people believe religion and science are at odds.

And I say that for both people on here and for Christians I know.

They often are, though, given that most Christians believe there is a heaven and an afterlife, many believe there is a deity, many believe that deity created us, many believe that Jesus actually performed miracles, many believe that a wafer turns into the body of Christ.

Religion enslaves intellect and enshrines ignorance.

No1newts · 15 Aug 2010 at 11:44

I would love to believe in reincarnation or an afterlife. The idea that at the end of it all that is that gameover is a pretty depressing thought.

Ultimately though I don't believe there, when you die thats it

Andrew_McP · 15 Aug 2010 at 11:48

RDM said:
because you don't really understand science. It isn't really about facts, it is more about results.

Science is about constantly chipping error away from a kernal of truth. Faith is, IMO, about constantly gluing hope to a kernal of error.

That's the great thing about superstitious beliefs... everyone can have their own opinion and nobody can prove it one way or the other.

When it comes to science, ibuprofen either works, or it doesn't. Newton's laws either work, or they don't. If something doesn't work properly then it just means you haven't chipped off enough error yet. So it's a lot harder to have opinions about science.

Delusions maybe, but not opinions. :-)

Andrew McP

MrRoper · 15 Aug 2010 at 12:34

More importantly,

Science is about trying to disprove theories, thats how science evolves.

Religion doesnt, it blindly accepts what they believe is the truth. This 'faith' is what puts science and religion at odds.

EDIT:

And my personal belief, We die and thats it.. Game over folks