Giving evidence in crown court

rypt said:
Scuffle that got out of had?
You really see it like that?

I'm not sure how 4 people randomly attacking you is a "scuffle that got out of hand", I don't generally go around and start scuffles with random people (in fact, I have never thrown the first punch in any sort of scuffle)
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Not at all, it was an unprovoked attack that resulted in one of us leaking blood everywhere and the other trying to stop his face being kicked on the floor with his arms. Pretty brutal.

It's hard to describe the experience but I felt pretty blind as to how solid the evidence on our side was, and what their defence even was. We know the truth, the defendants know the truth. But it's the jury that need to be convinced of it.

Ultimately I could have turnt to the CPS barrister and said no, I don't accept their basis guilty plea, it wasn't a scuffle, it was an unprovoked attack and we were nothing short of victims to the whole situation. Which is all good and well, and it means their plea would be ignored and court would go ahead and the jury would be sworn in, police witnesses called and the 1-5 day(s) process started. However, if they managed to wriggle out of being found guilty they would walk away untouched, nothing on their record, free men knowing that they can beat people up in town, go to court and win cases. It really wasn't a clear-cut decision, and I was given about 20 seconds to decide. Personally I think I made the right choice, but I'm definitely interested in other people's views.
 
The problem I see is that we know that this sort of slap on the wrist stuff is not a deterrent really, that is the point I'm trying to make.
 
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As you say, it's your decision and you had little time to make it.
Even if there are doubts about the punishment for the crime, you must still be glad that your pursuit of this forced their hand at the 11th hour.

It felt satisfying to me that, when scrotes broke into my garage and pinched my two bikes, coppers found one of the bikes and charged / convicted two lads, at least one of which was held on remand etc. It felt good that something was happening to them.
 
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i agree, personally id never say yes to anything that wasnt the utmost that the legal system could do just, as rypt said, as a deterrent to other people and out of petty vengeance (personally i think they should have to pay and the injury's inflicted on the victim be inflicted on them (yeah not sure about that )) .
theres not much worse then a random beating and i find it totally disgusting as it seems to be happening more often.
 
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That's a hard one to call! :eek: This would make an interesting poll actually - maybe start a new thread and ask a mod to add a poll to it?

After thinking about it, I reckon I would have chosen the same as you did. At least they caught the scumbags and they got punished so some degree.
 
Pretty sure most hospitals take photos of the injurys... don't you have them?

Did you go to the Solent? I'm in Soton too.
 
When I was 18 I had to give evidence as the main witness in an attempted murder trial at the supreme court in gibraltar as I saw a squaddie repeatedly stamp on the face of a local vagrant when I was on holiday.

I was nervous, but the judge looking the spitting image of Eric Idle got me through it.

The guy got off not guilty though (gulp!) :mad::eek:
 
Curio said:
That's a hard one to call! :eek: This would make an interesting poll actually - maybe start a new thread and ask a mod to add a poll to it?

After thinking about it, I reckon I would have chosen the same as you did. At least they caught the scumbags and they got punished so some degree.
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Would definitely like to hear one of the resident SC/PCs on here give their view on this matter, as they've probably got more experience of courts and what happens. The PC dealing with our case said he'd felt like he's been living in the courts the last few months :p

It's one of those arm chair call situations, it's easy to say what you think you'd do. But it's quite amazing how much you needlessly doubt yourself through the process of a year's worth of procedings, let alone the worry/stress that comes hand in hand with being a witness.
 
FabienO said:
Pretty sure most hospitals take photos of the injurys... don't you have them?

Did you go to the Solent? I'm in Soton too.
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Yup they have records of all our injuries, but bruises don't show until 1-2 days after. So there was no point taking pictures of his arms at the time.

I work two floors below you, in HR/Payroll :p type Sawell into the outlook address book :D
 
That's the alleyway near Bedford Place, right? Just outside Orange Rooms and Lizard Lounge? It's a shame it wasn't closer to Chicken Land, all the takeaways that way have CCTV and they could have checked at the time, and the CCTV down that alley is crap - they had one there for years which basically showed nothing because that alley was too dark, and the camera couldn't get a clear picture with the contrast from the lights outside Orange Rooms.

Does Greasy Arif still work in Chicken Land? He used to spoon chips into the tray with his hands :p
 
Sawell said:
Don't know if anyone is interested in the outcome of this, but moments before we were due to go into crown court they changed their plea to guilty :) great result.
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Von Smallhausen said:
Also, in the time I have attended court I would estimate around 75% of the cases have ended up in a plea on the day.
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;)

Good result for you. Nice one.
 
Sawell said:
Yeah, it wastes a lot of time. Although I think that's their intention. Not to mention the money it wastes, I dare think how much a case costs on average.
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I think it should be looked on more harshly by judges during sentencing. If someone pleads guilty straight up, fair enough, be a little lenient. If they muck about and wait until the last minute, no leniency should be shown.

But that would be too sensible, wouldn't it? *sigh*
 
philjohn said:
I think it should be looked on more harshly by judges during sentencing. If someone pleads guilty straight up, fair enough, be a little lenient. If they muck about and wait until the last minute, no leniency should be shown.

But that would be too sensible, wouldn't it? *sigh*
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I think the judge definitely takes it into account.
 
Deadbeat said:
That's the alleyway near Bedford Place, right? Just outside Orange Rooms and Lizard Lounge? It's a shame it wasn't closer to Chicken Land, all the takeaways that way have CCTV and they could have checked at the time, and the CCTV down that alley is crap - they had one there for years which basically showed nothing because that alley was too dark, and the camera couldn't get a clear picture with the contrast from the lights outside Orange Rooms.

Does Greasy Arif still work in Chicken Land? He used to spoon chips into the tray with his hands :p
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The very same :D I'm not sure, but he can slop his balls over my chips if it makes them taste that good.

Von Smallhausen said:
;)

Good result for you. Nice one.
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I must have overlooked what that actually implied before, what's your experience with the sentencing on guilty at magistrates vs guilty before crown court? Is there much of a difference in outcome?

philjohn said:
I think it should be looked on more harshly by judges during sentencing. If someone pleads guilty straight up, fair enough, be a little lenient. If they muck about and wait until the last minute, no leniency should be shown.

But that would be too sensible, wouldn't it? *sigh*
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Indeed. The whole system is so complicated though, and there's so many levels to it. Before all this started I just assumed that you go to the police, they take a look, take them to court and bob's your uncle. But there's two court levels, not to mention three different bodies (police, CPS, witness protection) all working different corners, and all acting independently. For example, the police have to present the case to the CPS and the CPS have to agree to take it on. It's easy to see how it ends up taking so long, and information go missing, and assumptions be made etc. On top of that you have like 3 odd different plea stages, and the whole thing plays out a little more like a game of poker than a criminal proceeding. It's hard to come up with a solution that would be better though, especially a solution that works at all levels, as of course not every person taken to court is guilty.

Put me in a similar situation again though I'd do the same, and I'd appeal to anyone I met to take crime seriously and follow through too. If everyone ignores the mess it just piles up.
 
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