**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****
- Thread starter mohawk
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I very much agree with Day9 on this... any imbalances that may/maynot exist within the game are not the concern of anybody other than the absolute top players and even then the following still applies; low to decent skilled ladder farmers can't claim to be playing perfect games were the deciding factors were one unit that does a bit too much damage... had they just played better they would have beat their opponent.
That lower skill players then think they have some kind of insight into what is actually imbalanced because they have played a few games and lost to a rush? amazing.
What top player can't defend reapers btw? Idra made it to the final of ESL fine enough and he didn't lose because Morrow built reapers; even the ragemaster himself will look to the mistakes he made rather than just write off a game to an OP unit, that is the difference between players who will improve and those who won't.
It takes a lot of skill to pull off the 5 rax reaper rush, and the level of player required to do it, is not really the kind any of us, really, would face up to regularly. But if well executed, yes it's a problem, and that's why it is being patched.
The other problem is protoss getting a free expansion with simple two gate pressure. Or, getting four warp gates and unstoppably warping forces directly into an opponents base (zealot based).
Siege tanks absolutely annihilate their supposed counters, (swarms of light units) even without support. The tank nerf wont make them rubbish, it'll just stop them from annihilating infinity zealots or lings. If supported with marines, tanks will still be a damn menace.
I mean you're frustrated and I understand that. Last night I got cannon rushed and it was annoying. I had a plan for a 30 minute game, he had one for a 5 minute one. I made a mistake (delaying my scouting, because I was doing a greedy build) and I paid for it.
I mean if you can list an unbeatable cheese tactic then please do, and I'm sure someone here can demonstrate how to beat it. I mean I've racked up about 400 games now (and I have most of the replays) odds are any cheese you've seen, I have too, and beaten it. I'm sure Indie (as a zergie) has too.
I don't think the game is imbalanced in a game breaking way. Like has been said it's about skill. As I'm getting better I'm not loosing as much. If I loose to a tactic that I've not seen before I learn from it and can react better next time.
I've beaten z/p/t early/mid/late game and lost/win to countless different tactics, some are hard to deal with some require intelligence and a bit of creativity.
I've beaten z/p/t early/mid/late game and lost/win to countless different tactics, some are hard to deal with some require intelligence and a bit of creativity.
Exactly. This is not to say imbalances don't exist (I personally think the Marauder needs attention but... It's not that it's not counterable, it is just that it requires more skill to counter a marauder heavy bio ball than it does to 1-a attack with it 
).
But if we look at one of the imbalances I mentioned above - two gate 'lot pressure into expand against Zerg. Good protoss players can do this but against a better player, for example me v indie, it doesn't work out so well. Simply put, although the strategy is powerful, other factors are at play too (******* mutalings).
Anyway we have 1.1 on the way, 1.2 wont be too far behind, I think. A slight nerf to the marauder (remove its ability to stim I think) and that really only leaves the viking to nerf...
). But if we look at one of the imbalances I mentioned above - two gate 'lot pressure into expand against Zerg. Good protoss players can do this but against a better player, for example me v indie, it doesn't work out so well. Simply put, although the strategy is powerful, other factors are at play too (******* mutalings).
Anyway we have 1.1 on the way, 1.2 wont be too far behind, I think. A slight nerf to the marauder (remove its ability to stim I think) and that really only leaves the viking to nerf...
For any terran haters out there, go to vimeo.com and search for "Hitler complains about ZvT". Hilarious
LOL that was hilarious
On a side note, TvZ is fine l2p newbs xD
I just played my first 3 practice games online as Protoss and won them all. Each was a game against a different race. I never thought I could ever win at an RTS game online. 
I've not really got a specific strategy yet, but although far from good, I think my macro is what did it for me. Just overpowering the enemy with my sheer number of units and harassing the enemy when I have reasonable force has worked so far. I'm so glad I watched a lot of Day[9]s stuff now. Sounds so simple but it works!
EDIT - Just had my first loss vs Protoss.
I've uploaded the replay if anyone would be kind enough to have a look at it. It seemed to be quite even until he got colossi, then it all went to pot.
http://www.mediafire.com/?jznbk9euwko3d56
Each was a game against a different race. I never thought I could ever win at an RTS game online. I've not really got a specific strategy yet, but although far from good, I think my macro is what did it for me. Just overpowering the enemy with my sheer number of units and harassing the enemy when I have reasonable force has worked so far.
I'm so glad I watched a lot of Day[9]s stuff now. Sounds so simple but it works! EDIT - Just had my first loss vs Protoss.
I've uploaded the replay if anyone would be kind enough to have a look at it. It seemed to be quite even until he got colossi, then it all went to pot. http://www.mediafire.com/?jznbk9euwko3d56
Last edited:
Soldato
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I'm never going to be good at this game. I can't handle losing, I turn the game off if I lose more than like 2 in a row. I can't even handle winning, I still turn the game off after like 4 1v1s. I get so ****ed off at how bad I am I'm never going to improve. I have more fun watching the game than I do playing it too, so I might just stick to watching.
Bit of a QQ post but I'm annoyed lol.
Bit of a QQ post but I'm annoyed lol.
Soldato
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- Newcastle upon Tyne
I'm the same - once I've lost a game, I lose interest and power it down. I think I might get a squad who like Co-op vs the AI and just do that
I know the feeling you talk about, you're on a winning streak and you know it has to come to an end so you want to avoid playing more in case it's the next game
I kinda just play through it, I get pretty raged up when I lose, but I just start another game. A bit stubborn that way.
I bet you are improving though. I find I get on a losing streak of like 5-6 games and it feels pretty hopeless, the only thing to do is break out yabot and drill some bo's play some 2v2s on lost temple to practice (your 1v1 build) then go play some more 1v1s.
There's nothing wrong with playing socially 2v2s, 3v3s, or ai games. That's how I played the vast majority of StarCraft 1 because I never really got into serious 1v1 in that game.
For any terran haters out there, go to vimeo.com and search for "Hitler complains about ZvT". Hilarious
Haha awesome, "I will baneling bust and claim victory"
I just played my first 3 practice games online as Protoss and won them all.
I've not really got a specific strategy yet, but although far from good, I think my macro is what did it for me. Just overpowering the enemy with my sheer number of units and harassing the enemy when I have reasonable force has worked so far.
EDIT - Just had my first loss vs Protoss.
http://www.mediafire.com/?jznbk9euwko3d56
It wasn't really that even I'm afraid to say. I think you were playing against a pretty good player, I don't know why he was playing practice league games...
Basically it came down to the fact he had a solid tech build in mind and executed it pretty well. The only thing you can do if he gets colossi is to get more, or blink and snipe it. Your fundamentals were pretty good, just he was a lot faster mechanically than you. You can't really do much about that without just playing teh game a lot more and learning hotkeys.
Soldato
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- 15 Sep 2006
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- Liverpool
http://www.mediafire.com/?ddpb4bxd7jlzmds
Here's the last 2 games that I lost. The PvP was just a build order fail on my part. He went colossus and I didn't, so I decided to just try and get more stuff than him. Which didn't turn out well as his macro was better than mine anyway. Second game...I don't even know.
Here's the last 2 games that I lost. The PvP was just a build order fail on my part. He went colossus and I didn't, so I decided to just try and get more stuff than him. Which didn't turn out well as his macro was better than mine anyway. Second game...I don't even know.
Thanks for watching kar. That's reassuring to know that he was just a plain better player than me!
I haven't really tried out blink yet in mp so I'll give that a go at some point. I'm trying to use hotkeys, but the speed of the game just gets too much for me towards the end of a game. Since that game I lost another one vs Terran where he just invaded me with mass marines. So I'm trying the fast colossi strat for a bit and see how that works out.
Fast gas, then one gateway -> cybernetic core -> robo facility -> robo bay -> colossi -> win (hopefully!). While I wait until I get colossi, I build a few zealots, stalkers and immortals to keep me going. Once I have a colossi or two, I head in. I'll expand quite quickly in to a second base as well as that's quite easy to do on a practise map. Scouting is also quite difficult at the start of a practise game, so I'll try and get an observer asap as well.I could play this all day. Getting quite addictive now.
I am kinda of like this but I usually get into another game and once it starts im ok whether I lost or won the last. If I lost the last game and it was a blatant mistake on my part, thats when the nerdrage comes into play
I'm relatively happy bumbling around at the silver/bronze level and don't care too much for improving to a diamond level play, although it would be nice. This is one of those games that I really have to be in the mood for if I am going to do ladder.
Regardless, this is still the BEST RTS I have ever played and I enjoy it a tremendous amount.
Associate
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Don't laugh at me please..
Just got rushed 3 games in a row, lost all of them (my first 3 Bronze league games, heh).
I don't know how to defend really early game
My build order is: (terran)
10 Supply depot
11 Barracks
13 Gas
15 Orbital command
16 supply
etc
By the time I have 5-10 marines out my opponent (if he's a zerg) will send about 20 zerglings/roaches (?) which will either wipe out my marines or very nearly.
While the next marine is building another wave of 10 zerglings will appear and I've lost the game.
Against protoss he sent 2 probes across and planted 5 cannons about the time I had my first marine...
Do I just need to wall in better? Im such a noob at RTS games XD
Just got rushed 3 games in a row, lost all of them (my first 3 Bronze league games, heh).
I don't know how to defend really early game
My build order is: (terran)
10 Supply depot
11 Barracks
13 Gas
15 Orbital command
16 supply
etc
By the time I have 5-10 marines out my opponent (if he's a zerg) will send about 20 zerglings/roaches (?) which will either wipe out my marines or very nearly.
While the next marine is building another wave of 10 zerglings will appear and I've lost the game.
Against protoss he sent 2 probes across and planted 5 cannons about the time I had my first marine...
Do I just need to wall in better? Im such a noob at RTS games XD
Don't laugh at me please..
Just got rushed 3 games in a row, lost all of them (my first 3 Bronze league games, heh).
I don't know how to defend really early game
My build order is: (terran)
10 Supply depot
11 Barracks
13 Gas
15 Orbital command
16 supply
etc
By the time I have 5-10 marines out my opponent (if he's a zerg) will send about 20 zerglings/roaches (?) which will either wipe out my marines or very nearly.
While the next marine is building another wave of 10 zerglings will appear and I've lost the game.
Against protoss he sent 2 probes across and planted 5 cannons about the time I had my first marine...
Do I just need to wall in better? Im such a noob at RTS games XD
9 suppply
12 barracks
13 gas
16 orbital command
don't forget to wall in, so that zerglins can do nothin
thats basic opener i usually go for 2nd barraks, reactor on one, tech lab on the other and pump out 2 marines 1 marauder a go and mass that army up with eventually getting medivaks for the mmm combo.
if its zerg don't forget some tanks and thors
Don't laugh at me please..
Just got rushed 3 games in a row, lost all of them (my first 3 Bronze league games, heh).
I don't know how to defend really early game
My build order is: (terran)
10 Supply depot
11 Barracks
13 Gas
15 Orbital command
16 supply
etc
By the time I have 5-10 marines out my opponent (if he's a zerg) will send about 20 zerglings/roaches (?) which will either wipe out my marines or very nearly.
While the next marine is building another wave of 10 zerglings will appear and I've lost the game.
Against protoss he sent 2 probes across and planted 5 cannons about the time I had my first marine...
Do I just need to wall in better? Im such a noob at RTS games XD
If you're playing as Terran then just wall yourself in. Stick a couple of marines behind the wall and watch the zerglings fall.
Don't laugh at me please..
Just got rushed 3 games in a row, lost all of them (my first 3 Bronze league games, heh).
I don't know how to defend really early game
My build order is: (terran)
10 Supply depot
11 Barracks
13 Gas
15 Orbital command
16 supply
etc
By the time I have 5-10 marines out my opponent (if he's a zerg) will send about 20 zerglings/roaches (?) which will either wipe out my marines or very nearly.
While the next marine is building another wave of 10 zerglings will appear and I've lost the game.
Against protoss he sent 2 probes across and planted 5 cannons about the time I had my first marine...
Do I just need to wall in better? Im such a noob at RTS games XD
Post the replay, i'll take a look. if Zerg has roaches, its not really a rush...
Roaches are fairly useless early game vs Terran imho.. we'll see what we can do to help !