White van scraped my lil bro's car and tried to drive off. Police were called and now he denies ever

Heofz · 2 Sep 2010 at 02:21

Hi guys,

I took a google streetview image and illustrated what happened today at our local high street. The red rectangle represents the van, the blue one represents my brother's car:

My brother beeped his horn, and the van driver tried to drive off, but fortunately there was a traffic queue a couple of yards down, so he had nowhere to go. It was long enough for anyone to clock his number plate so he wisely pulled over.

We drove and parked in front of him, and got out of the car. He just stayed in the van smirking with his window open and when I went up to him and asked what happened, he immediately tried to played dumb like nothing happened, suddenly followed by "You pulled out in front of me! I have a witness here!" (referring to his passenger)

Lying scumbag :mad:

I said to my brother to take down his number plate, and he started looking agitated and I saw him change gears. Both of us asked him "where are you going?" He didn't reply and started edging forwards. We stood up in front of his van because we thought he was going to make a run for it without giving us his details, so he moved more and more, physically shoving us out of the way with his van and almost running us over.

I saw a look of panic on his face as he did it, which must be why he then suddenly decided to stop and park around the corner, so we followed, meanwhile my brother was ringing the police because the guy obviously didn't want to play ball or be civilised or truthful about anything.

He got out and again immediately started denying everything and criticising my brother's driving, trying to play the victim, despite the fact that his face was riddled in guilt. The mistake he made though was that he never showed any interest for recompense for the damage to his van, just that he wasn't at fault. He didn't care about exchanging details or anything, which is a strange way to act if you're supposed to be the victim?

A few minutes later of debating and inspecting each other's vehicles, taking photos etc, a constable shows up and asked what happened. The van driver immediately blurts that I was demanding money off him! WTF :confused:

Cheeky ****, trying to make me look like the offender, as well as telling a flat out lie to a police officer. I laugh in disbelief, but what can you do, it's his word against yours.

The constable took me and my brother to the side and asked what happened, did the same with the van driver and his passenger, did a quick radio check on our vehicles and supervised the exchange of information. He explained that he couldn't do anything about what happened as he didn't witness it, and that we should go through insurance etc. He gave us an incident reference number he generated via radio and then sent us on our way.

When ringing up the van driver, he immediately came back with: "my friend is a solicitor, I'm not paying a penny, and if you want to take this to court, go for it!" and hung up.

Damage to lil bro's car:

Damage to scumbag's van:

Unrelated other damage to his van (*wonders if he got this scrape from doing something similar to somebody else*):

I know he and his wife are the 2 sole shareholders of the company that van belongs to, incidentally, his last name is "Crook"

You couldn't make it up!

It's probably only a couple hundred quid's worth of damage (respray), so not worth claiming on the insurance, but considering it was the van driver's fault and he's being a completely slimy scumbag and won't own up to it, is there anything we can do, other than "just do nothing"?

Hades · 2 Sep 2010 at 03:04

Any CCTV cameras in the area? Or ask in the ships for possible witnesses?

Heofz · 2 Sep 2010 at 03:09

Hades said:
Any CCTV cameras in the area? Or ask in the ships for possible witnesses?

We'll be doing this tomorrow. It happened right outside blockbuster video, so, fingers crossed

Hades · 2 Sep 2010 at 03:57

I'll be honest though, if you don't get witnesses or CCTV footage, then the damage looks like your brother pulled out on him. He had right of way and your brothers car was causing an obstruction.

Agreed the actual story is more than that and you say your brother was stationary. But you'll need to prove that and also explain why your brother didn't have time to reverse back into his parking space. One argument might be that he pulled out without realising the van was there.

I'm not saying that's true, just that it could be seen that way without evidence on your side.

Maz · 2 Sep 2010 at 07:41

The scuff on your brothers car is an easy repair as far as a bodyshop is concerned, or ring a Chipsaway type smart repairer and it will cost you less than £100 to rectify.

I'd bite the bullet and get it done myself if it was my car and not get into a dispute with the 3rd party, then I'd go round at night and smash his van up!*

* Ok maybe I was joking about the last bit

Mr Jack · 2 Sep 2010 at 07:44

If he fails to give you details, he is committing an offence. Just keep documenting it all, and pass it to insurance to deal with.

Witnesses needed!

Usel · 2 Sep 2010 at 07:46

I'd say your brothers at fault as he should either have pulled out and drove on or reversed back in to clear the road for passing vechicles. Partically blocking a road and hoping they giveway to you is the mother of all **** ups.

PMKeates · 2 Sep 2010 at 07:55

If he doesn't pay, simply return the favour on his own car.

whitecrook · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:00

Usel said:
I'd say your brothers at fault as he should either have pulled out and drove on or reversed back in to clear the road for passing vechicles. Partically blocking a road and hoping they giveway to you is the mother of all **** ups.

This. treat it as a lesson learned.

mattyprice4004 · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:12

PMKeates said:
If he doesn't pay, simply return the favour on his own car.

PMKeates · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:20

whitecrook said:
This. treat it as a lesson learned.

It really isn't that clear cut.

Imagine I parked my car across the middle of the road. Another car approaches and my car is clearly visible and blocking both lanes. It continues to approach. It smashes in to the side of it.

Who is at fault?

It is not acceptable to simply drive along and wilfully plough in to other people's stationary property either to make a point or because you cannot judge the size of your vehicle. It's no different to ramming a car parked in the street, even if it is blocking your lane of the road. You shouldn't do it. You go around or don't go.

whitecrook · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:26

But he wasn't parked in that position, he was trying to leave his parking space. He pulled out a bit (either too LATE, in which case he was HOPING the van would give way, and/or causing another road user to potentially take action by braking etc) or he pulled out and then decided to give way to the van, which is fail and amounts to basically hesitation and/or poor observation.

(cue pople saying but what if this, or what if that, or what if it was a child walking out etc) Well it wasn't, and?

Demon · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:29

As mentioned above, I agree that witnesses are essential or it's just your word against his, and if he says you pulled out into him as he passed by, I can't see it going that well to be honest.

If you brother was stationary, even though he was protruding, if the Van driver had absolutely every oppertunity to have seen him, he should not proceed unless he has enough room to do so, so in my eyes (and obviously I'm not a judge), I'd say the Van driver was clearly at fault. But you would need witnesses to back this up, otherwise it's far to easy to say your brother just pulled into the side of him as he went by, and there with no further evidence, I think he'd get away with that statement.

wez130 · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:32

I'm afraid i'd have to go with your lil bro being at fault too, the van had the right of way, and your bro should have used his mirror to notice the van was coming before pulling out at all. The van was not obliged to give way, sure, it would have been courteous, but you have to remember, there are a hell of a lot of ignorant drivers out there and you have to learn not to have hope in them being polite all the time.

stockhausen · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:32

whitecrook said:
Treat it as a lesson learned.

Somehow I doubt that you will get anywhere by pursuing the van driver; it is entirely your word against his.

If the police officer didn't find anything wrong with the van driver (tax, insurance, licence, etc.), I suspect that it will end up costing you more to pursue it than simply to get the minor damage to your brother's car sorted out - sad but true

ps - nice annotated image

Demon · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:35

wez130 said:
I'm afraid i'd have to go with your lil bro being at fault too, the van had the right of way, and your bro should have used his mirror to notice the van was coming before pulling out at all. The van was not obliged to give way, sure, it would have been courteous, but you have to remember, there are a hell of a lot of ignorant drivers out there and you have to learn not to have hope in them being polite all the time.

Actually, I don't think the van driver had right of way, if the OP's recount is accurate, and there where several seconds elapse before the van arrived at that position, the road was clearly 'blocked' to him by the OP's brothers car, so he was driving without due care and attention. The Van driver is obliged to give way if the road ahead is blocked and he can't safely get by, it sounds silly to say that no matter what the obstruction is, as long as it's not fully in the flow of traffic, it's OK to hit it..

Had the OP's brother pulled out just as the van was alongside, and the van driver had no time to reasonably react etc, then absolutely, the OP's brother is at fault.

But that's the crux, it's the time the Van driver had to see and react to the obstruction. As soon as your brother edges out into the road, he's 'in the road' in my book, whether 20% into the road or 100%, he's in the carraigeway, which makes it a case of either pulling out too closely infront of the Van, or whether the Van driver had a lot of time to have seen it, but was being negligent.

ci_newman · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:37

wez130 said:
I'm afraid i'd have to go with your lil bro being at fault too, the van had the right of way, and your bro should have used his mirror to notice the van was coming before pulling out at all. The van was not obliged to give way, sure, it would have been courteous, but you have to remember, there are a hell of a lot of ignorant drivers out there and you have to learn not to have hope in them being polite all the time.

What he said I'm afriad! Your brother pulled out in front of traffic, regardless of how long he was stationary for. If he was stationary for a considerable time, he should have pulled out fully.

PMKeates · 2 Sep 2010 at 08:46

ci_newman said:
What he said I'm afriad! Your brother pulled out in front of traffic, regardless of how long he was stationary for. If he was stationary for a considerable time, he should have pulled out fully.

It's not regardless of how long he was stationary for. If he had entered the path of the van carelessly i.e. the van was passing and he simply moved off giving the van driver no chance to react, it would be the OP's brother's fault. However, if he simply edged his nose forward so that he could see, then stopped, and the van driver saw all of this, decided not to slow, stop or move over, and just drove straight on carelessly, dragging the side of his van down the OP's brother's car, the van driver is at fault.

Everyone has a right to go about their daily business. That includes trying to move off from a parking space. It's more than just courtesy to not smash in to the cars of people who are doing this. The van driver was presented with a gap narrower than his vehicle and chose not to react. The OP's brother did the safe thing which is to stop when he felt he did not have sufficient time to safely move off in front of the van. The OP was not in a position to avoid the accident, the van driver was, and the either the van driver's negligence or incompetence caused it. It's like driving in to the back of a stopped car and blaming the driver of the stopped car for not moving!

MrFunex · 2 Sep 2010 at 09:13

www.jbassetcare.co.uk doesn't exist, it would seem... Maybe there's no such company...

Edit: it does, just the website isn't there...

Conspiracy theory over.

Back on topic, the van driver sounds like a royal jobsworth. If it's £100 to set the car straight again, that's not the end of the world. People like that will get their comeuppance - next person he dings might be a lot bigger than him and give him a damned good hiding. I think it'd be a very long and drawn out process to get anywhere through the insurance companies.

Usel · 2 Sep 2010 at 09:22

What if the van was actually a 7.5 tonne fully laiden lorry and his brakes failed?

We could do what if's all day long and if that is actually the road in question then there is loads of camber on the road for the clutch to be dipped and just roll back.

I also think the van driver is a **** but that is what town/city drivers are like.

White van scraped my lil bro's car and tried to drive off. Police were called and now he denies ever

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