Koran burning in reaction to 9/11

[Yas786]

Is that true? Blimey.

I guess the whole 'Islam is a peaceful religion and we'll kill anyone who says otherwise' rings true in some places then.

Oh please for the love of god robbo dont take anything that bhavv says literally...he has a habit of twisting things as well...much like the extremists themselves.

But for the record yes Sharia law is pretty brutalwhen it comes to certain things, better put that in before bhavv has an epileptic fit or something...but thats down to the people who implement such a law. I dont agree with it thats for sure.

Wrong! I'm afraid (no matter what you or Amnesia say) I don't have an issue with muslims in general.

I have an issue with the kind of (religious) ignorance on display in this story. It just so happens the cultures involved are (once again) Islamic.

Is Islam to blame? Not really... Are the cultures to blame yes!




Well said... But unfortunately the media spins these stories up. It would have been far better if said numpty had just had his little bombfire quietly with no one the wiser...

Finally we agree on something thank you and yes i do blame culture as well...thats the problem people get islam and culture all mixed up at times...not really their fault when its hard to differentiate between the 2.

 

[NeilF]

No, actually the law is based specifically on the teachings of the Koran, which state that Atheists, Apostates, Gays and Adulterers outside of marriage are to be put to death. It is the religion that creates this culture, and the law based upon it follows its rules.

They're bed-fellows.... In many ways equally as guilty... Ask yourself why in two different countries, in one country Muslims will stone individuals to death, but in the other behave in exactly the same way as you might. It comes predominantly down to the culture involved...

 

[bhavv]

Just do a little research into the Islamic Golden Age and you will see for yourself.

Good for you, maybe you werent aware that I simply dont care about those things.

 

[Amnesia]

I think that's the problem. You haven't got a clue what I'm on about, yet you'll still attempt to put words in my mouth or take cheap jibes at me.

i thought my last post made it clear that it wasn't you i was talking about. look now i feel embarrassed for having to spell it out.

 

[NeilF]

Finally we agree on something thank you and yes i do blame culture as well...thats the problem people get islam and culture all mixed up at times...not really their fault when its hard to differentiate between the 2.

A good while ago I did have an opinion along those lines. It was then a discussion on this very forum, with some patient rational minds, that made me bounce the idea around enough in my head to realise that Islam really is not the reason/problem behind these kind of stories. It's the culture/ignorance which unfortunately endorses/supports it.

 

[Castiel]

Good for you, maybe you werent aware that I simply dont care about those things.

Obviously. Which makes you the same as those you rail against.

 

[Castiel]

A good while ago I did have an opinion along those lines. It was then a discussion on this very forum, with some patient rational minds, that made me bounce the idea around enough in my head to realise that Islam really is not the reason/problem behind these kind of stories. It's the culture/ignorance which unfortunately endorses/supports it.

Absolutely. unfortunately there are many that will ignore that as inconvenient to their hatred of Islam, Bhavv being a good example.

 

[Rainmaker]

Good for you, maybe you werent aware that I simply dont care about those things.

So why post? Correct me if I've misunderstood, but you basically just said "I don't care to do actual research, or try to learn the truth of the matter, I'm happy to carry on with my current way of thinking". This differs from "religious blindness", how?

It's the same as the guy above who replied to me that religion is basically incompatible with science and that religion just howls "prove God doesn't exist then" in return. There are some staggeringly narrow viewpoints being presented in this thread, ironically often from people who are posting to advocate 'science' and 'truth' and 'progressive thinking'.

I'll dig out the quote in a moment to make this reply make more sense, but essentially the guy said quantum mechanics now makes all religious ideas moot. Quite hysterical considering a great deal of Eastern cosmology (especially Buddhist and, from the little I know of it, Hindu) was saying things that quantum theory is now catching up with. There's a great deal written about this, and it's a fascinating topic. Especially when you consider that most of it was written over 2,000 years ago and is pretty much verbatim in line with current quantum theory. EDIT: Here's the quote:

Heard this countless times. Science can't directly prove there isn't a God, yet there is absolutely no evidence providing even a hint of one. Most religions provide reasons for the origin and functionality of the physical universe but now with things like General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, which to be honest are fact, religion is proven wrong. People either ignore facts or come back with: "it's not suppose to be taken literately!" or "yea but science cannot prove there is nothing outside of the Universe so there must be a God there!" It's a stupid mindset imo (no offence).
Things like M-Theory for example are starting to hold some ground on things like hyperspace, multi-verses, big bangs and even though mainly theorised at this point who knows what the future holds, and tbh even now theories like this hold more ground than the Koran.

A lot of people in this thread seem to be confusing "religion" with Abrahamic belief systems. Believe it or not, there are other faiths, philosophies and beliefs out there. Again to reference Buddhism, simply because I know more about that than a few of the other systems... Buddhism's teachings on cosmology are pretty much in line with current quantum theory. They endorse multiverses, have no issue with the big bang, and have many detailed texts outlining how everything we "see" with our physical senses is made up of tiny particles smaller than the eye can see, which are surrounded by energy fields which give them cohesion. There are a lot of books out there about "Buddhist physics", so I don't see how you can be so dismissive unless you're doing the whole "Abrahamic belief = all religion" thing as others have.

 

[Yas786]

A good while ago I did have an opinion along those lines. It was then a discussion on this very forum, with some patient rational minds, that made me bounce the idea around enough in my head to realise that Islam really is not the reason/problem behind these kind of stories. It's the culture/ignorance which unfortunately endorses/supports it.

Indeed it is and its a shame because those countries and their govts are corrupt as they come so dont really give a damn about educating their people, they are greedy and just look at how much money they have and how they can better their own lives ie prime example is the President of Pakistan...17mill people affected by the devastating floods and whast he doing?? traipsing around the world pretending to be doing something for his country....thats why you have these extremists in those countries that are preying on these people because quite simply the govt or people in charge dont give a damn so they can easily slip in and influence these people and get them to carry out atrocitities against innocent people.

 

[bhavv]

So why post? Correct me if I've misunderstood, but you basically just said "I don't care to do actual research, or try to learn the truth of the matter, I'm happy to carry on with my current way of thinking". This differs from "religious blindness", how?

Because I dont go around killing or attacking people based on following any specific believes, nor do I feel any need to convert other people to my beliefs either, or build any structures which teach my beliefs to guillable sheep.

Also, a few people that follow any particular religion that made any kind of discoveries has absolutely nothing to do with, or influence my ideas or opinions on this topic, or of that religion.

A lot of people in this thread seem to be confusing "religion" with Abrahamic belief systems. Believe it or not, there are other faiths, philosophies and beliefs out there.

Well done for pointing out the obvious. Now take a minute to realize that the Abrahamic religions are the main ones practiced by well over 90% of the religious people in the western, and middle eastern worlds, and as a result are usually the targets of any criticism or opposition.

 

[B&W]

Comes from a hindhu background although hes not a practising hindhu as it is.

he's a prat anyway, people like him dont matter. wasteman.

 

[NeilF]

Absolutely. unfortunately there are many that will ignore that as inconvenient to their hatred of Islam, Bhavv being a good example.

The only thing in 'their defense' is how often these sort of religious extremist stories seem to involve Islam. ie: How many of these intolerant/ignorant cultures seem to endorse extreme Islam views... Hence, it's a very easy generalisation to make...

I have no idea why so many of these 'backward' cultures are tied up specifically with Islam. But I suspect it's simpy a coincidence of geographic location and historical events etc... Maybe someone can suggest a better reason, or point out an error etc.

 

[Amnesia]

Because I dont go around killing or attacking people based on following any specific believes

Attack - To criticize strongly or in a hostile manner.

 

[WingZero30]

Indeed it is and its a shame because those countries and their govts are corrupt as they come so dont really give a damn about educating their people, they are greedy and just look at how much money they have and how they can better their lives....thats why you have these extremists in those countries that are preying on these people and therefore the extremists get more and more popular.

Agree!!. I blame the rulers more. If those countries were modern welfare states with modern infrastructure that included free schools, hospitals, and cheap food then a lot of problems would be eradicated and people would feel a sense of well being. Recent pakistani military operations in waziristan have done more harm and on youtube you can watch interviews of local people talking about their businesses, roads etc bombed by the military and now they have nowhere to go and they blame the pakistani government.

 

[Rainmaker]

Because I dont go around killing or attacking people based on following any specific believes, nor do I feel any need to convert other people to my beliefs either, or build any structures which teach my beliefs to guillable sheep.

So your derisory view of Muslims, Islamic culture and so on isn't an attack on someone based on their beliefs? Your stated disinterest in learning more, which could alter your views based on the facts garnered, isn't the same type of fundamental "blindness" you're attacking in some Muslims?

Well done for pointing out the obvious. Now take a minute to realize that the Abrahamic religions are the main ones practiced by well over 90% of the religious people in the western, and middle eastern worlds, and as a result are usually the targets of any criticism or opposition.

Regardless of percentages, one can't use general terms like 'religion' and 'all' without conjoining the other faiths alongside. I simply rebutted that the statement was incorrect, which it was. If people want to poke holes at Abrahamic beliefs (though I don't know why tbh), then at least make clear that you understand the difference.

 

[bhavv]

he's a prat anyway

Or maybe people who sympathize for, or follow any religion are prats

Or particularly those who get so annoyed over their holy book being burnt that they feel any need to become violent, I would consider those to be even bigger prats.

 

[Rainmaker]

Or maybe people who sympathize for, or follow any religion are prats

Yes. I mean imagine wanting to learn more about something, deciding to learn more about yourself and your relationship to the outside world (other people, 'spirituality' or whatever), instead of just being "not really bothered" like those attacking them.

 

[bhavv]

So your derisory view of Muslims, Islamic culture and so on isn't an attack on someone based on their beliefs? Your stated disinterest in learning more, which could alter your views based on the facts garnered, isn't the same type of fundamental "blindness" you're attacking in some Muslims?

My views on (some) muslims and their culture is entirely based on their actions today.

People being killed in the name of religion, or going crazy over blasphemy right now and today is far more significant to me than some people from that religion having made any kind of discoveries in the past.

The last I checked, people are still executed / killed for silly reasons under Islamic law and culture, and that still hasnt changed.

Such actions are also fully supported by their Holy book.

 

[Castiel]

The only thing in 'their defense' is how often these sort of religious extremist stories seem to involve Islam. ie: How many of these intolerant/ignorant cultures seem to endorse extreme Islam views... Hence, it's a very easy generalisation to make...

I have no idea why so many of these 'backward' cultures are tied up specifically with Islam. But I suspect it's simpy a coincidence of geographic location and historical events etc... Maybe someone can suggest a better reason, or point out an error etc.

Islam is, like most religions, a product of the culture in which is was born. Islam of antiquity actually had a huge stabilising effect on the regions in which it grew leading to great social and scientific advancements and in many ways the Medieval Islamic world was by far the more advanced socially, morally and scientifically than Christendom. Unfortunately constant warring and the expansion of Christendom and Islam put Islam onto a more warlike and barbaric path, the difference between Saladin and Baybars are good example of this change in attitudes.

It is a complex and in-depth thing to study and one that really deserves it's own thread (one not inundated with polarising views such as Bhavvs.)

 

[Amnesia]

My views on (some) muslims and their culture is entirely based on their actions today.

People being killed in the name of religion, or going crazy over blasphemy right now and today is far more significant to me than some people from that religion having made any kind of discoveries in the past.

The last I checked, people are still executed / killed for silly reasons under Islamic law and culture, and that still hasnt changed.

Such actions are also fully supported by their Holy book.

have you thought about doing a petition ?