Koran burning in reaction to 9/11

[Yas786]

Isn't the ironic thing here that this mental "Pastor" is actually following Sharia law by disposing of unneeded Qur'ans in this way? This is according to a Muslim at work who says that if you have a Qur'an that is no longer needed it must be burnt and not thrown away, torn up etc.

I guess another irony is that President Obama is against this form of provocation but not against the provocation of building a Mosque at Ground Zero. Quelle surprise!

Well you could say that about the Pastor at the center of this uproar...as for your muslim friend...i find that hard to believe he would say such a thing...ive never ever heard of that being allowed but then on the flipside the Quran isnt a book we just throw to one corner...we look after it and take care of it. Your so called muslim friend, if he exists needs to re-do his islamic studies methinks.

The second point about the mosque near the 9/11 attacks...well again you fail miserably as its not a mosque but an ISLAMIC CULTURAL CENTRE that will have a prayer room but that does not make it a mosque in the strictest sense of the word...of course you will carry on ignoring that small but very important point as you normally do. But if im not mistaken Castiel in another thread about the 9/11 mosque uproar posted the details of what exactly is being built...iirc it has gym facilities amongst other things...now please tell me or show me where a mosque that has a gym facility inside it...also lets not forget that the people behind this venture have said that people from all faiths will be welcome to use the center. Whether they choose to or not is up to them but no one can accuse of us not being accomodating.

 

[Amnesia]

Have you ever considered that maybe I dont talk how I type to every person I meet?

you just walk upto them and say 'hey im an atheist' and then the beatings commence ?

can i suggest you strap yourself with one of these http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18124534

 

[Yas786]

they hit you and call you names ?

Awww poor likkle bhavv being picked on by these nasty muslims....bhavv stop talking utter crap please...how do you know they are muslims unless they have beards and wear a skullcap but majority of those muslims tend to be of the older generation and not the youngsters.

Have you ever considered responding to my questions above instead of chatting **** about Muslims?

Roffles....hes obviously not going to answer because quite simply Rainmaker you have out trumped him so to speak...he has no answer to what you posted and therefore is just ignoring it.

 

[Rainmaker]

Well you could say that about the Pastor at the center of this uproar...as for your muslim friend...i find that hard to believe he would say such a thing...ive never ever heard of that being allowed but then on the flipside the Quran isnt a book we just throw to one corner...we look after it and take care of it. Your so called muslim friend, if he exists needs to re-do his islamic studies methinks.

Are you quite sure about that? Genuine question. Buddhism has a similar consideration for its texts as holy articles, or at least as items containing truths that are of utmost importance and hence deserving of utter respect. However, as suggested by the guy above Buddhism also states that should you need to dispose of a sutra or any other dharma related item (painting, picture of a Buddha or Lama etc) then you should burn it rather than dispose of it. The logic being that if you burn it while reciting the 'emptiness' mantra then it's gone. But if you sling it to landfill - for example - it'll be tossed around, soiled and abused for who knows how long.

I'm wondering if it's not entirely implausible that Islam doesn't have a similar idea buried away somewhere.

 

[Castiel]

Roffles....hes obviously not going to answer because quite simply Rainmaker you have out trumped him so to speak...he has no answer to what you posted and therefore is just ignoring it.

Either that or he will just say he is not interested in that.

 

[bhavv]

Indeed it has. Bullies and Bigots rarely do.

Ok. Example 1:

A muslim Girl asked me if I believed in God. I simply replied 'No I dont, I'm an Atheist'.

I said nothing else but that and she descended into an angry and loud one sided argument, saying 'How can you not believe in God? Science cant explain everything and religion just says that God is a force that created everything. And dont you know what Atheists are like? They are immoral and evil criminals'.

This was a girl who got straight A's and went on to study Medicine by the way.

Example 2:

A muslim cab driver asked 'So then do you believe in God?' I answered the same thing - No I dont, I'm an Atheist' with nothing else said. His reply:

'You know what, I really cant believe you people who dont believe in God. If you really think that then why dont simply go and take out a loan and live your life in luxury since you dont care about any responsibilities or afterlife?'

Example 3:

Another muslim girl, and actually a family friend as well this time asked again if I believed in God, to which I replied nothing other than 'No I am an Atheist'. Her reply -

You really dont believe in God? How can you say that when your mother is so strongly religious? What would she say to you if she found out, or if I told her? Do you want me to tell her what you just said?'

/facepalm, /facepalm, /facepalm. There are plenty more times as well, but the responses were shorter or simply mocking laughs.

The two girls were people I knew at school who were muslims. The cab driver had his silly muslim hat on and a beard.

Back on topic, then. I've posted a couple of times now asking you to refer to my reply about atheism in relation to the communist Cultural Revolution and the violence perpetuated by the regime inside and outside of its borders. You don't seem to have noticed, or replied, yet though.

Nope, I havnt yet seen any of these posts. I read it now, and I'll simply say that whatever the Communist Chinese government did has absolutely nothing to do with my beliefs at all.

 

[RDM]

Lol. Where have I said anything of the sort. I would like it if everyone respected everyone's Religion. Not just Islam. As I stated before, Islam says to respect people of other religions, Islam is about peace. Nowhere have I demanded.

If I was you, I would take a long hard look in the mirror and also a long hard look at Islam if the below is your idea of "respect".

Oh I see. Hindu's worship cows right, or they think cows are there mothers?

They have Idolic Gods too? And I'm sure I once was told by a Hindu they bathe in the River Ganges because it's their Holy water?

However I was also told, it's the most polluted water in the planet?

Both Spawn and yourself seem to have a pretty low opinion of Hinduism so I suggest it is a touch hypocritical for your to call for respect for Islam.

 

[Yas786]

Are you quite sure about that? Genuine question. Buddhism has a similar consideration for its texts as holy articles, or at least as items containing truths that are of utmost importance and hence deserving of utter respect. However, as suggested by the guy above Buddhism also states that should you need to dispose of a sutra or any other dharma related item (painting, picture of a Buddha or Lama etc) then you should burn it rather than dispose of it. The logic being that if you burn it while reciting the 'emptiness' mantra then it's gone. But if you sling it to landfill - for example - it'll be tossed around, soiled and abused for who knows how long.

I'm wondering if it's not entirely implausible that Islam doesn't have a similar idea buried away somewhere.

Pretty sure of it but tbh ill have to check on that...as far as im aware we treat the Quran with the utmost respect so the notion of it getting dirty and soiled is pretty much non existant but it could happen.

Good question Rainmaker lol.

 

[Rainmaker]

Pretty sure of it but tbh ill have to check on that...as far as im aware we treat the Quran with the utmost respect so the notion of it getting dirty and soiled is pretty much non existant but it could happen.

Good question Rainmaker lol.

Yes, Buddhists would say the same thing. But **** happens. For example, say for some reason my roof leaked and a pile of texts got wet and the ink ran. I'm not likely to want to keep them regardless, as they're unusable and illegible. According to Buddhist tradition, it'd be OK to burn them as it prevents any future mistreatment of them (even unintentional) which might otherwise occur if I, for example, simply threw them away. Burning means they're "gone" so no disrespect can occur. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Castiel]

Are you quite sure about that? Genuine question. Buddhism has a similar consideration for its texts as holy articles, or at least as items containing truths that are of utmost importance and hence deserving of utter respect. However, as suggested by the guy above Buddhism also states that should you need to dispose of a sutra or any other dharma related item (painting, picture of a Buddha or Lama etc) then you should burn it rather than dispose of it. The logic being that if you burn it while reciting the 'emptiness' mantra then it's gone. But if you sling it to landfill - for example - it'll be tossed around, soiled and abused for who knows how long.

I'm wondering if it's not entirely implausible that Islam doesn't have a similar idea buried away somewhere.

Far be it for me to correct Spawn, who seems to be a practising Muslim but The Qu'ran should not be burned.

Proper disposal of the Qu'ran or any Qu'ranic text is two fold. You can either bury it after wrapping it in something pure, like silk so it cannot be walked on or dug up. Or you can submerge it in flowing water until the words are gone.

Burning should only be done if it is not possible to do either of the above,and then the ashes need to be scattered in flowing water anyway so defeats the purpose really.

Other Islamic literature such as the Hadith must have the names of Allah, his Angels and Messengers removed then it is permitted to burn the remains.

 

[bhavv]

If I was you, I would take a long hard look in the mirror and also a long hard look at Islam if the below is your idea of "respect".

Both Spawn and yourself seem to have a pretty low opinion of Hinduism so I suggest it is a touch hypocritical for your to call for respect for Islam.

See, I'm not as obsessed or childish as those two are to nit pick others over saying silly things like that, but it is a very clear and evidenced fact that Islam and most Muslims have very little respect towards any other religion or atheism, and they mostly tell lies to state otherwise, while even going as far as to call other people liars when actually speaking the truth about their vile and disgusting religion.

 

[Castiel]

If I was you, I would take a long hard look in the mirror and also a long hard look at Islam if the below is your idea of "respect".



Both Spawn and yourself seem to have a pretty low opinion of Hinduism so I suggest it is a touch hypocritical for your to call for respect for Islam.

The usual Pakistan-Indian rivalry. Again a cultural influence probably picked up from their Family.

 

[bhavv]

The usual Pakistan-Indian rivalry. Again a cultural influence probably picked up from their Family.

Actually, the Koran, and a lot of Islamic teachings outside of Pakistan are intolerant and hateful of Hiduism too as it is considered shirk, the single biggest and only unforgivable sin in Islam - particularly because they worship many gods and make idols of them.

And why should anyone listen to their requests for respecting Islam when they have no respect towards other religions?

 

[RDM]

The usual Pakistan-Indian rivalry. Again a cultural influence probably picked up from their Family.

I just found it somewhat sad and ironic that he would on the one hand wish for respect to his faith and all faiths and then turn around and come out with that about another faith.

 

[Yas786]

Far be it for me to correct Spawn, who seems to be a practising Muslim but The Qu'ran should not be burned.

Proper disposal of the Qu'ran or any Qu'ranic text is two fold. You can either bury it after wrapping it in something pure, like silk so it cannot be walked on or dug up. Or you can submerge it in flowing water until the words are gone.

Burning should only be done if it is not possible to do either of the above,and then the ashes need to be scattered in flowing water anyway so defeats the purpose really.

Other Islamic literature such as the Hadith must have the names of Allah, his Angels and Messengers removed then it is permitted to burn the remains.

Yep i think your right there Castiel so thank you for the better explanation....i am practising but like most things im still learning a lot from my religion so please dont take me as an authority....not yet though

 

[Castiel]

See, I'm not as obsessed or childish as those two are to nit pick others over saying silly things like that, but it is a very clear and evidenced fact that Islam and most Muslims have very little respect towards any other religion or atheism, and they mostly tell lies to state otherwise, while even going as far as to call other people liars when actually speaking the truth about their vile and disgusting religion.

I don't think that RDM was suggesting that at all. I have found RDM to be a little more circumspect and factual in his assertions on Islam that your good self.

I would like to see the evidence that most Muslims tell lies or have little respect for other religions, (the historical animosity between Islam and Hindu aside). The Qu'ran actually explicitly states that people of the Book (Jews and Christians) should be treated with respect.

 

[Nanoman]

I would like to see the evidence that most Muslims tell lies or have little respect for other religions, (the historical animosity between Islam and Hindu aside). The Qu'ran actually explicitly states that people of the Book (Jews and Christians) should be treated with respect.

There are tons of examples and links in this thread !

 

[bhavv]

I would like to see the evidence that most Muslims tell lies or have little respect for other religions, (the historical animosity between Islam and Hindu aside). The Qu'ran actually explicitly states that people of the Book (Jews and Christians) should be treated with respect.

You need evidence of Anti Semetism and disrespect for non believers in Islam?

You obviously arent reading all of the koran. Most muslims consider modern day Chrsitians and Jews to no longer be people of the book because Christians worship Jesus like a God, and, well, they really just hate Jews for some bizare and unknown reason.

Plenty of proof is available for this, I dont need to look it up for you.

Its always funny how much the defenders and followers of Islam in this thread blatantly lie, and then try to make a massive uproar over other peoples mistakes and whine and cry like a pack of brain damaged hyenas over others being liars.

 

[RDM]

The Qu'ran actually explicitly states that people of the Book (Jews and Christians) should be treated with respect.

Unfortunately it is less respectful with regards to religions outside of those of the book. Probably because it was in direct competition with the arabian animist religions at the time of it's formation. As for it being a cultural India v Pakistan thing, I would say that is putting the cart before the horse as the Pakistan v India thing is due to the differing religions.

 

[Yas786]

The usual Pakistan-Indian rivalry. Again a cultural influence probably picked up from their Family.

For a lot of pakistani and Indian people it is just that but personally i dont have any issues with india or indians in general....despite what RDM likes to think.

I just found it somewhat sad and ironic that he would on the one hand wish for respect to his faith and all faiths and then turn around and come out with that about another faith.

Id like to see you show where Vita has made any disparaging remarks about Hindhuism??...he said nothing insulting as far as i could see, he was just making a point about the differences in both faiths.

Making a mountain out of a molehill i see RDM.