America does a thing (again) (and again)

[Ring Peace]

It was the Training camps in Afganistan.

That was enough for Bush and Blair.

Also its next to Iran and Pakistan, so little trips across the border can be made.

Please try to remember that:-

Afghanistan requested evidence that Osama bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attack, none was made available. This is the usual proceedure when trying to get someone extradited.

Afghanistan offered Osama bin Laden to trial in Pakistan, but this was not acceptable to the US.

15 of the 19 attackers were Saudi nationals.

 

[rypt]

Do you really want me to give examples of bad policy, or are you in fact aware of them (noting you cited three converse wars above) and are just being argumentative?

List the bad American policies towards Muslims then ... that occurred PRE-9/11

 

[doodah]

Please try to remember that:-

Afghanistan requested evidence that Osama bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attack, none was made available. This is the usual proceedure when trying to get someone extradited.

Afghanistan offered Osama bin Laden to trial in Pakistan, but this was not acceptable to the US.

15 of the 19 attackers were Saudi nationals.

I never knew this. Do you have a source pelase?

 

[dave1983]

can't believe 9/11 was 9 years ago, do any of you guys think that the collapse of the twin towers was not cause by the fire from the fuel from the plane?

 

[RDM]

Texas has the death penalty, it is predominantly Christian.
Texas has a large number of homophobic groups, and many accounted homophobic killings.

Of course, this must mean that all Christians are homophobic death penalty seekers, right?

For the love of allah will you read the rest of the thread? The whole point is that you don't make sweeping generalisations because of the actions of some. The OP is making sweeping generalisations about the US because some in the US make sweeping generalisations about muslims.

 

[Vonhelmet]

List the bad American policies towards Muslims then ... that occurred PRE-9/11

The US has been dicking around in the Middle East and South Central Asia for a hell of a long time. That's what the Muslims are up in arms about.

 

[Vonhelmet]

can't believe 9/11 was 9 years ago, do any of you guys think that the collapse of the twin towers was not cause by the fire from the fuel from the plane?

For the love of God, please don't ask.

 

[rypt]

The US has been dicking around in the Middle East and South Central Asia for a hell of a long time. That's what the Muslims are up in arms about.

Give me exact examples ...

If you want to go for general stuff, then Muslim countries have been ****ing about with Christian strongholds for centuries as well. How far shall we go when counting these things?

 

[RDM]

The US has been dicking around in the Middle East and South Central Asia for a hell of a long time. That's what the Muslims are up in arms about.

Why is it when the US does something for political gain in a country that happens to have muslims in it, the US are dicking about with muslims. Yet when muslim nations do dumb things the religion is unimportant? The US couldn't care less what the main religion is in a country.

US attacks afghanistan, it's an attack on all muslims. Muslims attack the twin towers, nothing to do with muslims. Surely you cannot have it both ways?

 

[wordy]

9/11 was carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam (or at least in the name of their little corner/sect of it)

There has been far too little condemnation of terrorism from the major Islam clerics and imams.

Recently there has been a TV advertising campaign by american muslims stating that they were as upset by 9/11 as other americans and they don't want to force their religion on anyone and just want to live in peace with their neighbours.

Quite why something like this isn't blindingly obvious to everyone including americans is beyond me.

 

[thedoc46]

Recently there has been a TV advertising campaign by american muslims stating that they were as upset by 9/11

Can't say they look upset to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV_eN4YEEI0

 

[MumboJumbo]

They're unfortunately indicative of many Western Nations and the growth of (American style) conservatism based on evangelical Christianity which powers this kind of reaction.

In Britain we have a push toward intrusive secularism instead, but equally they use the current radicalisation of a very small number of Muslims to push their political agenda. We also have seen this with the imminent visit of the Pope to the UK, everyone having a pop at an entire religion because of the actions of a minority of their alleged adherents.

@Rypt. Almost all the mainstream Muslim councils have repeatedly denounced and condemned terrorism and the acts themselves. Just because the national media choose not to highlight it in the same way as the negative aspects of Islam (or any religion or political group) doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

While I agree with you mostly. I disagree with the statement about the Roman Catholics. It is an evil religion and will continue to be so untill the Pope stops doing things like telling Africans that condoms spread aids or raking in so much money from all these countries they have brainwashed who don't have the education or media that we do in England which highlights these things. There are many roman catholic 3rd world countries because the roman Catholics take advantage of them.

Of course on the lower level of things, I have nothing against anyone who chooses to be catholic. But I really do feel they are ignorant to the history of their faith and the damage it does to so many people just so it can gain power. After all thats what the catholic church is. Political power and it gets a lot of money from it.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Give me exact examples ...

If you want to go for general stuff, then Muslim countries have been ****ing about with Christian strongholds for centuries as well. How far shall we go when counting these things?

America have intervened in the politics of Iran and Iraq with the end goal of getting cheap oil out of the area. They also used Afghanistan in the Cold War against the Soviet Union.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Why is it when the US does something for political gain in a country that happens to have muslims in it, the US are dicking about with muslims. Yet when muslim nations do dumb things the religion is unimportant? The US couldn't care less what the main religion is in a country.

US attacks afghanistan, it's an attack on all muslims. Muslims attack the twin towers, nothing to do with muslims. Surely you cannot have it both ways?

I'm not trying to have it both ways, rather making the point that it is perceived that way by the Muslims.

 

[rypt]

America have intervened in the politics of Iran and Iraq with the end goal of getting cheap oil out of the area. They also used Afghanistan in the Cold War against the Soviet Union.

So just 2 things, Iraq and Iran

Afghanistan they technically helped the Muslims vs the Soviets

 

[gibb]

http://www.mediaite.com/print/portl...or-printing-image-of-portland-muslims-on-911/
It was on a newspaper's front page on 9/10, and for some reason people didn't like it. The newspaper got a barrage of universal condemnation because a bunch of people thinks Islam is a Bad Thing, and associates the religion with 1.6 billion followers with the acts of 19 extremists who just about broke every single rule in the Koran. The editor of the newspaper in question made a gushing apology that's enough to make you squirm.

Really?

 

[Castiel]

While I agree with you mostly. I disagree with the statement about the Roman Catholics. It is an evil religion and will continue to be so untill the Pope stops doing things like telling Africans that condoms spread aids or raking in so much money from all these countries they have brainwashed who don't have the education or media that we do in England which highlights these things. There are many roman catholic 3rd world countries because the roman Catholics take advantage of them.

Of course on the lower level of things, I have nothing against anyone who chooses to be catholic. But I really do feel they are ignorant to the history of their faith and the damage it does to so many people just so it can gain power. After all thats what the catholic church is. Political power and it gets a lot of money from it.

The issue over condom's is one which gets somewhat misunderstood. What the Catholic Church are saying is that contraception is wrong across the board regardless of the use of condoms for safe sex or combating STD's or whatever, however , and this is important, they also state that it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage and that if people in the third world abided by this then the need for contraception to combat AIDS would be less of an issue.

Now, I am neither a Catholic or particularly religious, but they do have a singular point, unprotected sex outside of marriage spreads sexually transmitted disease and those who abstain from premarital sex have a significantly lower risk of contracting AIDS and associated conditions.

In reality, both protected pre-marital sex and abstinence outside of a secure, stable relationship should be encouraged within such afflicted social groups, the Church have their beliefs so promote the one which fits within this, it is then up to the state to promote the other.

It doesn't make the Catholic Church evil as such, but personally I feel that some of the issues surrounding the Church do need to be addressed, hence my surprise when Benedict was elected Pope in the first place. He is a traditionalist and what the Church needs is someone more progressive, hopefully the issues raised during visits such as this one will rally some of those within the Church to push for a more progressive stance on some of the more contentious political issues such as contraception and the errant priesthood.

 

[Greenlizard0]

But this is the issue I raised in another thread. Yes ideally with proper familial and social morals the use of condoms to help prevent the spread of HIV wouldn't really be necessary. However it is, and this is well known. Years almost decades later when things have gone down hill to then, at that point, still insist that condoms shouldn't be used is plain dangerous.

So just 2 things, Iraq and Iran

Afghanistan they technically helped the Muslims vs the Soviets

It's not really just two little things, it sounds like your sweeping under the carpet there.

If you want another example how about Israel?

My point again though (you miss it by selective quoting) is the fact Americans have ****ed off a lot of people over the years. By looking at one group that have taken revenge (NOT been the initiator for anything) is largely irrelevant because as time's gone by anybody would have been sick of being pushed into a corner. Notice I didn't specify Islamic people per se above.

 

[Castiel]

Give me exact examples ...

If you want to go for general stuff, then Muslim countries have been ****ing about with Christian strongholds for centuries as well. How far shall we go when counting these things?

Simply take the 20th century for example.

First off, the creation of Israel (big one that). The carving up of the Arabian Peninsula and TransJordan. The institution of the Dollar as the currency accepted by OPEC to trade in Oil. The intervention and encouragement to Iraq to invade Iran. The Iraq War.

Economic sanctions against many of the Arab countries at one time or another, military and political involvement in almost every conflict in the region since 1945.

 

[rypt]

If you want another example how about Israel?

'67 war was started by the other lot