Aliens land and target US, UK nuke sites

[Tefal]

Controlled nuclear fission / fusion in general, yes; very useful.

Rapid and uncontrolled release of nuclear energy; not so useful.

Actually the only ever feasible interstellar ship design we've developed uses nuclear explosions for propulsion.

 

[Tefal]

They're from the other side of the universe. Who's to say that they would have the same instinct to kill and destroy and conquer as we do?

Because if they see us as a threat even their peaceful civilian stuff will have a huge destructive potential.


It would be no effort for them to destroy us even if they brought no weapons with them.

 

[Captain_Slick]

Nearly every part of civilian nuclear or space programs can result in destruction either though direct thought and alteration of the tech or by accident which would make it's destructive properties very obvious.

Only in our experience, as a result of that bit of our brain that's still in caveman mode.

Remember the most powerful nuclear weapon ever made was designed, built and tested in only 16 weeks from relativity slap dash calculations.

As a result of a desire to destroy others. These aliens may have never had such a desire.

And that was by us comparatively dim people, even if they'd never thought of making a nuke it wouldn't take them long to do it.

Using the word comparatively when talking about aliens is just pointless. Chances are that their intelligence is completely different to ours. Topsy turvy. If they had never thought of making a nuke as a result of being devoid of any desire to harm others, they probably wouldn't give up that peacefulness simply after discovering how awful we can be in our quest for power as a species.

 

[Captain_Slick]

Because if they see us as a threat even their peaceful civilian stuff will have a huge destructive potential.


It would be no effort for them to destroy us even if they brought no weapons with them.

What if they have no understanding of 'threat'?

Say they've stumbled upon our planet, and our nukes, and realised the danger that they pose as uncontrolled fusion. Imagine that they have the same response to that as we do when we discover a gas leak or bomb.

They could simply, in their eyes, be fixing a problem that they've encountered on their travels.

 

[Tefal]

Only in our experience, as a result of that bit of our brain that's still in caveman mode.

No though accidents, if you can't see how destructive those inventions can be you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them as you're going to kill a lot of people.

As a result of a desire to destroy others. These aliens may have never had such a desire.

Nope the weapon was and always will be completely useless in a military sense, it was purely political and probably helped to save lives.

Chances are that their intelligence is completely different to ours.

Now who's making assumptions?

The only data we have points to them being relatively like us, and that being "peaceful" has never been seen in any life form we've ever encountered makes it unlikely that it's a beneficial trait.

 

[Captain_Slick]

No though accidents, if you can't see how destructive those inventions can be you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them as you're going to kill a lot of people.

Even through accidents. Perhaps they had the same accidents and thought "Oh dear, we better not let that happen again!" where as we thought "Hang on, how can we use this to destroy Hitler?".

Nope the weapon was and always will be completely useless in a military sense, it was purely political and probably helped to save lives.

Have you forgotten about how it ended the war in Japan? The nukes at the end of WW2 were still tactical weapons. It was decades until it became a case of mutually assured destruction.

Now who's making assumptions?

Fair enough. It's just not accurate to assume they're simply copies of us in weirder bodies from the other side of the universe and therefore would have also discovered and gone about destroying each other with nuclear fusion., though.

 

[Duff-Man]

Actually the only ever feasible interstellar ship design we've developed uses nuclear explosions for propulsion.

That is still a highly controlled application of fission / fusion. It would need to be, in order to provide a balance between adequate thrust, and not blowing the ship to hell.

 

[Tefal]

What if they have no understanding of 'threat'?

ok, pretty worrying thing to not have and makes their evolution a pretty miraculous event.

Say they've stumbled upon our planet, and our nukes,

How do you stumble into the most secure locations on the planet?

and realised the danger that they pose as uncontrolled fusion. Imagine that they have the same response to that as we do when we discover a gas leak or bomb.

What happened to not recognising a threat, if they had no concept of threat the use of the devices as weapons wouldn't occur to them and they wouldn't interfere with them without knowing what they are.

After all the most dangerous part in a stored device would be the conventional explosives.

They could simply, in their eyes, be fixing a problem that they've encountered on their travels.

So when you meet a new person your first thought is to break into their basement and start fiddling with their gas supply?


Do you not think you're posts are going ever more into the ludicrous on their assumptions?

 

[Tefal]

That is still a highly controlled application of fission / fusion.

not really it's throw it out the back and vaporise some plastic to give you a bit of a push.

The devices are just bombs it;s not contained by the ship it is just open.

 

[Dugganator]

I would say if they mastered interstellar travel then they should have an understanding of nuclear fission/fusion but hey then again how do we honestly know. I mean really we dont know so cant guess what they do or dont know. People discover new things all the time and someone soon could unlock something that simply changes all the rules for what we think are universal rules.

Dont get me wrong I would guess that if we are being visited by Aliens they should be move advanced then us. But really I think of the term Alien but something that is completely Alien to us in every way. Anyway lets see when the invasion fleet turns

 

[Captain_Slick]

ok, pretty worrying thing to not have and makes their evolution a pretty miraculous event.

You never know. Their home world could have been devoid of threats and therefore they never learnt to defend themselves.

How do you stumble into the most secure locations on the planet?

Secure to us, maybe. Could have been a literal walk in the park for them.

What happened to not recognising a threat, if they had no concept of threat the use of the devices as weapons wouldn't occur to them and they wouldn't interfere with them without knowing what they are.

Using the word threat in military/defensive terms and in accident/health and safety terms.

They could have no understanding of wanting to destroy life, but perfectly aware of the dangers posed by accidents/flaws in design.

What I'm basically saying is we know sweet F A about 'aliens' and anything is possible. Might not be likely as a result of our own nature and understandings, but still possible.

So when you meet a new person your first thought is to break into their basement and start fiddling with their gas supply?

If I could smell gas, and I was a gas technician and knew how to fix it, yes.

 

[Tefal]

It was decades until it became a case of mutually assured destruction.

Which was when that weapon was made.


They couldn't even get the thing to their enemy let alone get the plane back.

Fair enough. It's just not accurate to assume they're simply copies of us in weirder bodies from the other side of the universe and therefore would have also discovered and gone about destroying each other with nuclear fusion., though.

it is however perfectly sensible to assume that they are the top of their food chain and will have required to have military minds to even survive the early years.

We've never seen an organism live through peace, after all if you're peaceful that thing that uses claws and teeth rather than words is going to kill you off long before you even think about leaving your planet.

 

[Duff-Man]

not really it's throw it out the back and vaporise some plastic to give you a bit of a push.

The devices are just bombs it;s not contained by the ship it is just open.

I'm not sure where you got this "feasible design" from, but the explosive release of vast amounts of undirected nuclear energy is not going to cause a net thrust. It would need to be controlled in order to provide a directional thrust. The blast must must interact with the ship in a very real way. Therefore there must be very strict limits on the energy the ship can absorb, as specified by its design.

It is still highly controlled.

 

[sanaxe1]

So when you meet a new person your first thought is to break into their basement and start fiddling with their gas supply?

Thats not a good example , we would be seen as having a vastly inferior intellect compared to them. Its the equivalent of seeing a young child playing with matches your going to take them off the child so they don't harm them self.

 

[Tefal]

You never know. Their home world could have been devoid of threats and therefore they never learnt to defend themselves.

Then it's unlikely they'd have become intelligent let alone developed.

Also no threats?

So no meat eaters on the planet?

Secure to us, maybe. Could have been a literal walk in the park for them.

Still doesn't make it's "stumble upon incident" you'd have to know where to look, and if you're peaceful surely your first port of call a heavily armed military base.

Using the word threat in military/defensive terms and in accident/health and safety terms.

They could have no understanding of wanting to destroy life, but perfectly aware of the dangers posed by accidents/flaws in design.

Again that's a huge assumption and doesn't make any sense.

What I'm basically saying is we know sweet F A about 'aliens' and anything is possible. Might not be likely as a result of our own nature and understandings, but still possible.

But odds are it's not, everything we've seen points to nature being violent and competitive.


And based on it's random nature at some point something is going to figure out it's better to eat the small furry thing than try and be friends with it.

 

[Cosimo]

Do you not think you're posts are going ever more into the ludicrous on their assumptions?

The same could be said of your replies.

Aliens, spaceships, it’s all pie in the sky.

 

[Captain_Slick]

Which was when that weapon was made.


They couldn't even get the thing to their enemy let alone get the plane back.

What? The tactical city destroying nukes of the 40s/50s were not the country destroyers of the 70s.

it is however perfectly sensible to assume that they are the top of their food chain and will have required to have military minds to even survive the early years.

We've never seen an organism live through peace, after all if you're peaceful that thing that uses claws and teeth rather than words is going to kill you off long before you even think about leaving your planet.

Only as a result of our understanding of our own environment and the threats we've faced. They're environment/planet could be completely different... full of rainbows and cakes.

Like I said, something as likely, but not absolute definite. We know nothing.

 

[Tefal]

I'm not sure where you got this "feasible design" from, but the explosive release of vast amounts of undirected nuclear energy is not going to cause a net thrust. It would need to be controlled in order to provide a directional thrust. The blast must must interact with the ship in a very real way. Therefore there must be very strict limits on the energy the ship can absorb, as specified by its design.

It is still highly controlled.

No the bomb is thrown out the back then a large amount of plastic /other material is fired out between the bomb and the base plate the bomb explodes turns the material into plasma which then pushes on the base plate and pushes the ship forward.


A nuclear bomb is space isn't much use, it has practically no blast because it ahs so little mass, it's only real effect is a lot of visible and other radiation, which can be used to vaporise some styrene etc.

 

[edscdk]

Because if they see us as a threat even their peaceful civilian stuff will have a huge destructive potential.


It would be no effort for them to destroy us even if they brought no weapons with them.

If they were planning to take the plannet they would need to be sure we did not mess it all up with nasty radiation and chemicals in the battle...

maybe they are checking out what we have and how it works to make sure they dont end up with a big clean up operation...

 

[Tefal]

What? The tactical city destroying nukes of the 40s/50s were not the country destroyers of the 70s.

And i never mentioned them i said the most powerful lone we've ever made was designed built and tested in only 16 weeks from being commissioned.


oh and it was made in 1961.

Only as a result of our understanding of our own environment and the threats we've faced. They're environment/planet could be completely different... full of rainbows and cakes.

So even more ludicrous assumptions then?

why would they be intelligent then?

there's no threat, nothing to out compete and no reason for anything but the most rabbit shamingly fast breeder to be selected for.


being intelligent is a very resource intensive thing it's only useful if you need to be intelligent to get the resources to survive other wise it's a waste.