E36 M3 Evo vs. Non

MikeHiow

MikeHiow

MikeHiow

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Following on from the 'Nordschleife 2011' thread, I'm curious to get people's thoughts on both the E36 M3 and the Evo variant.

I understand the extra Vanos unit shows more unreliability issues? Is this a case and should it be a concern? What other issues are there on both cars? Anything a prospective buyer should be aware of?

I'd never normally consider owning something like this, as much as I love the car, because of the stigma around running 'M' cars, but I'm sure a lot of it is exaggerated. Can we try and keep this subjective with either citation of experience please? I'm not interested in the "M-What? Billions of pounds a year to run" that has put this stigma in my mind in the first place.

How much would you be looking at spending on either? £5k seems to get a fairly tidy example of an Evo or a very tidy example of a non.

*Prediction: Fox dips out of the conversation as soon as I make a point, now sitting out waiting for someone else to provide an argument, which he'll ride back in on. (Post #98)
 
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Haven't we had a thread like this before, can't remember the OP might have been you but they then went on to argue the people who know the costs have no actually understanding and it's actually going to cost £2.56 per year to run....
 
When I was seriously contemplating one, I came to the conclusion that an Evo with the VANOS recently done (within the last 20,000 miles or so) would be no more unreliable than the S50 based 3.0.

Having driven both, I preferred the power delivery of the EVO, and obviously you end up with a newer facelift e36.

Other than the VANOS, both will suffer the typical e36 foibles of bushes all round (especially RTAB - rear trailing arm bushes), and rear strut top mounts. LSDs are weak (being viscous), and an original LSD will be getting so close to being "open" I'd be seriously looking at dropping a proper mechanical LSD in if it were to be used as a track weapon.

If you're not bothered about sticking to a BMW service history then home-maintenance is no more difficult than a 325/328i (which is oh-so simple), but obviously consumables and (m-specific) parts are slightly inflated in price compared to their non-m counterparts.

As for actual running costs, I'd actually figured it out to cost slightly LESS than my LCR would, running it as a day to day car.

I'd still have one in a heartbeat as a track toy.
 
Firestar_3x said:
Haven't we had a thread like this before, can't remember the OP might have been you but they then went on to argue the people who know the costs have no actually understanding and it's actually going to cost £2.56 per year to run....
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Yea blackcircles or whatever his name was, the photo expert started one i think.
 
Is there a single car on sale today you have not announced plans to buy? Your dream world keeps spilling onto the forums again Mike.

But I shall advise.

The evo does indeed have vanos issues which are expensive to rectify. Servicing is also eye wateringly expensive because of the requirement to adjust valve clearances at every inspection service. These cars are becoming increasingly fragile as they age and are owned by a succession of knuckle draggers and were never a paragon of reliability when new. The cost to keep one going is massively out of proportion with its purchase price.

In short, Not one of the best ideas. Though doubtless with your considerable motorsport experience and master tech levels of DIY ability you will reckon you can do it anyway.

Why not simply use the track 325 you already have?

Another hypothetical thread I guess.
 
I'm not announcing plans to buy one, I'd just never normally consider one due to the aforementioned stigma surrounding M cars, it was just the Nordschleife thread and talk of buying a car for the 'ring that made me think how the M3 would be a perfect car for this.

If the information here revealed that it is not ridiculous to own one that will spend most of its time sat in the garage, then I'd certainly reconsider the above.

I would have thought you over everyone could understand wanting to be thorough in choosing a car, we do not mock you for considering both an E92 330, 335, and M5 and whatever else you've expressed a passing interest in.
 
[TW]Fox;17570802 said:
Use your existing 325i. It is surely the perfect tool for the job.
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It isn't. The journey without an interior is going to be tedious before considering MOTing and taxing it or anything else (I want something faster). I also still want/need a car to replace the Mondeo :)

Firestar_3x said:
Have you ever been to and driven around the ring Mike?
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No.
 
I don't see how - I don't even remotely enjoy driving the Mondeo anywhere and we have some cracking roads over here. What I enjoy about driving is obviously completely different to you, this is evident by both your comments and what you choose to drive. Me having different driving preferences to you is not something amusing.
 
I do love the assumption that what I currently drive is my vehicle of choice for such an event or that's the only thing I’ve driven or even been in on the ring.

You can't treat the ring as a normal track so normal car thinking doesn’t really work, a 106 will be rubbish, you can’t really exploit its benefits on the ring like you could around a UK based track, I know this because I’ve also driven the ring before i started tuning the MX-5 and it was painful on the quicker sections, it simply doesn’t have enough power, for me this spoilt the experience somewhat.

When I took the Passat around, yes it was a boat in the corners but it had much more power and I actually ended up enjoying the lap more because of that.

Yes different people have different likings as regards to cars on the track, but to be so certain in your view without actually driving the track is indeed amusing, it’s another case of you thinking you know better than those who actually have real life experience.
 
paradigm said:
When I was seriously contemplating one, I came to the conclusion that an Evo with the VANOS recently done (within the last 20,000 miles or so) would be no more unreliable than the S50 based 3.0.

Having driven both, I preferred the power delivery of the EVO, and obviously you end up with a newer facelift e36.

Other than the VANOS, both will suffer the typical e36 foibles of bushes all round (especially RTAB - rear trailing arm bushes), and rear strut top mounts. LSDs are weak (being viscous), and an original LSD will be getting so close to being "open" I'd be seriously looking at dropping a proper mechanical LSD in if it were to be used as a track weapon.

If you're not bothered about sticking to a BMW service history then home-maintenance is no more difficult than a 325/328i (which is oh-so simple), but obviously consumables and (m-specific) parts are slightly inflated in price compared to their non-m counterparts.

As for actual running costs, I'd actually figured it out to cost slightly LESS than my LCR would, running it as a day to day car.

I'd still have one in a heartbeat as a track toy.
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as per the nurburg thread, a M3 is my current top choice for a track day / fun car.

Good to hear its just the Vanos on the Evo mainly, so as long as that is sorted there is not major reliability difference between the two.

Bushes not a problem and probably would get them all poly'd up anyway.

didn't realise the LSD was viscous, I assumed with it being an M car that it would be mechanical as E39, E46, E60 and E92 were all mechanical. What sort of price are we talking for a new mechanical diff?
 
You can dump a quaife ATB in (I know, I know they aren't exactly great), with change from £800, but you'd be re-utilising the stock casing.
 
I ran an M3 Evo from 2002 for a couple of years. It was bought from a main dealer with an extended warranty. There is no stigma. People who kept their cars in top shape and serviced them at main dealers spent a fortune.

My vanos didn't break during my ownership and I was protected to a point with the warranty, but I still spent 2-3 grand a year on the car. A lot of this will have been labour though. Some examples of the larger costs I remember: servicing (inspections 1/2), discs, pads, front calipers, stainless steel clutch hose, exhaust, full suspension replacement including tops mounts and bushes.

This was when the car was 4 years old and I only did around 5k miles a year in it exercising extreme mechanical sympathy. Would I buy one as a track toy? Not unless I was prepared to spend half the price of the car again. Would I buy one for 5 grand? No chance. Cars at this end of the market are very, very tired at best.
 
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