Bit confused with Bowens ?

86JR · 24 Oct 2010 at 19:29

Been looking at the Bowens Gemini 750 Pro Three Head Kit which includes

For fashion and commercial photographers, particularly those wishing to shoot on location, the Bowens Gemini 750 Pro is the perfect choice. This kit includes three 750PRO heads, three stands, two 115cm silver/white umbrellas, two wide angle reflectors, 100cm softbox, leads, cables, modelling lamps and case.

However, Bowens do a battery and controller for the Gemini pro series, but it will only power 2 flashes. There isnt one for three, and the one above is the QuadX 3000j which costs £2k on its own and will power 4 flashes, but only quadx flashes, £1500 for three of them, without stands, umbrellas, reflectors, softbox and modelling lamps.

So im a bit confused as to why they offer a 3 head kit for portability and dont offer a battery for location shots that will actually power the kit ?

I know i dont need to spend this amount but i feel that "buy cheap buy twice" comes into play here ?

86JR · 24 Oct 2010 at 20:24

Ok i worked it out, that id need 2 controller boards and 2 batteries, that the controller doesnt control the output of the flash heads (the quadx series does) and that it would be only slightly more expensive in the long run to use the quadx kit with a lot more flexibility...

Messiah Khan · 24 Oct 2010 at 20:38

I wouldn't like to try and lug around 3 lights and 2 batteries on a location shoot! I bought a load of the Bowens 2 head 500R/500R kits for work and although they are technically portable (The kit bag has wheels) I wouldn't want to go any sort of distance with them.

On a different note, what do you want the lights for? Is it to experiment with lighting? If so you may be better off with getting some strobes and pocket wizards and learning that way.

86JR · 24 Oct 2010 at 21:00

Learn lighting, been watching the strobist dvd and i really need to invest in kit to learn it.

Messiah Khan · 24 Oct 2010 at 21:12

twoblacklines said:
Learn lighting, been watching the strobist dvd and i really need to invest in kit to learn it.

The main principle of strobism is to use cheap kit and clever ideas to produce results. Jumping right in and getting pro Bowens kit seems a bit ott in order to learn. As I say, pick up some cheap second hand strobes, pocket wizards, gells, stands and brollies and you are good to go for a huge amount of lighting effects and styles, and it costs far less.

Phate · 24 Oct 2010 at 21:15

My kit cost me less than £400 in total.

And...well, you've seen the results.

olv · 24 Oct 2010 at 21:24

twoblacklines said:
Learn lighting, been watching the strobist dvd and i really need to invest in kit to learn it.

Way to entirely miss the entire point of the strobist way of doing things. The reason strobist is such a brilliant resource is that you can learn everything with really cheap and basic kit.

All you need is a couple of cheap strobes, Nikon SB-24/26/28, Canon 420EZ/EX (whatever really) and some cheap triggers, the rf-602 are great for the price and some light stands and you're away for £150.

You seem to come from a mentality where you need to spend eleventy billion pounds on gear to get good results but this just isn't true and dropping £2k on studio lights that really aren't portable isn't going to help at all.

86JR · 24 Oct 2010 at 22:34

Phate said:
My kit cost me less than £400 in total.

And...well, you've seen the results.

What happens when you get to a point where its not good enough and you spend 2k on pro lighting ? Then you have spent £2400 when you could have spent £2000 ?

Derek W · 24 Oct 2010 at 22:42

its called upgrading when the finances / capabilities allow......didn't you do the same with your cameras..... :rolleyes:

Phate · 24 Oct 2010 at 22:45

twoblacklines said:
What happens when you get to a point where its not good enough and you spend 2k on pro lighting ? Then you have spent £2400 when you could have spent £2000 ?

Right, I COULD have spent £2000 instead of £2400 but thats entirely missing the point.

The point is you don't need to spend £2000 on gear when £400 worth of second hand stuff will produce results just as good. Which will save you for aguements sake, £1600 - Which is loads of money for new glass and other equipment to help improve.

Raymond Lin · 24 Oct 2010 at 22:47

Sigh, OP you need to change the mentality of spending money equal good photos. You did the same with your camera and lens and so far most of the ones you have posted have been erm, rubbish to be honest, at best, except one that i would think its ok. But it still early days so we can't really criticise you on that. However, You are doing the same here, you don't need to spend thousands to learn strobes, Jesus man, you haven't even mastered natural light yet and i don't think you know the settings on your camera. Flash photography is a whole new ball game so don't try to run before you can walk. Get your natural light work up to scratch first, then move onto flash. If you want to experiment, try something cheaper, dropping thousands just for fun, isn't fun.

Phate · 24 Oct 2010 at 22:48

If anything I would say get just a flashgun and use that. I remember how much of a shock it was when I got my 430ex II.

86JR · 24 Oct 2010 at 22:59

Raymond Lin said:
Sigh, OP you need to change the mentality of spending money equal good photos. You did the same with your camera and lens and so far most of the ones you have posted have been erm, rubbish to be honest, at best, except one that i would think its ok. But it still early days so we can't really criticise you on that. However, You are doing the same here, you don't need to spend thousands to learn strobes, Jesus man, you haven't even mastered natural light yet and i don't think you know the settings on your camera. Flash photography is a whole new ball game so don't try to run before you can walk. Get your natural light work up to scratch first, then move onto flash. If you want to experiment, try something cheaper, dropping thousands just for fun, isn't fun.

For example ? I know what pretty much all of them do, or atleast the important ones!

Phate · 24 Oct 2010 at 23:00

twoblacklines said:
For example ? I know what pretty much all of them do, or atleast the important ones!

Knowing what they do and putting them into practice are two entirely seperate things.

Dude if you want to learn lighting, buy a flash gun and some cheapo triggers off ebay.

Trust me, it'll keep you occupied for hours

86JR · 24 Oct 2010 at 23:02

Ok

I had a sb600 but it stopped working randomly, wouldnt turn on even with a fresh set of batteries, which im pretty peeved about as its expensive to replace!

Phate · 24 Oct 2010 at 23:08

They are sensitive, I remember when I dropped Toms 430ex and it stopped working a week later

Best example I can find on the quick

1 flash, 1 trigger, done

tbs · 25 Oct 2010 at 01:51

You should learn with a torch.

Columbo · 25 Oct 2010 at 08:58

You really really don't need to spend shed load of cash to get decent results..

I decided to learn macro a couple of weeks ago and after doing some research I felt that I shouldn't stump up the cash for a proper Macro lens until I knew what i was doing....

So I bought:

Raynox DCR-250 + Cheap Ebay slave flash.
Total Cost = £55

Added them to my 30D and 18-55mm IS kit lens.

Result so far:

john_s · 25 Oct 2010 at 09:38

twoblacklines said:
Learn lighting, been watching the strobist dvd and i really need to invest in kit to learn it.

As others have said, the essence of strobist is small, portable lighting - which can be had considerably more cheaply than the couple of thousand pounds you are talking about - and the strobist kit will be a whole lot more portable.

Start off with one flash (have you tried getting your SB600 repaired?) with a set of cheap triggers. Buy a light stand and maybe and an umbrella too and start off with that.

When you start to hit limitations of that, add another light, stand, trigger, etc as needed to overcome the limitation and gradually build your kit up as you need to. If you try to do too much, too soon, (like setting three strobes up at once) you'll just end up confusing yourself and getting nowhere. Once you can turn out consistent results with a single light, you'll be much better placed to consider the results from adding a second and third.

I'd love a 3 or 4 head studio light setup, but 99% of the time I just don't have any need for it, nor have I really got space to store it or use it. Fortunately, there's a studio all but round the corner from me that I can use for that if I need to.

I've built my kit up from one flash to three, though the third flash gets used more as a backup than a third flash - I'd say I shoot mostly about a 50:50 split between using one and two strobes. Shooting strobist-style is great; even if I had a 3/4 head studio light set, I'd still shoot on location as much as possible with the small flashes. They are fabulously portable and flexible.

The only indulgences to my strobist kit have been that I binned my early set of radio triggers because they misfired more often than they fired (though I understand the newer versions are much more reliable) to replace them with a set of Elinchrom Skyports and I bought a flash meter (which certainly isn't needed, it just saves a bit of chimping). Other than that, I've got a cheap setup. I might consider replacing anything that breaks with something a little more expensive, but when the cheap stuff has lasted so well, I'd seriously have to consider replacing like for like.

DampCat · 25 Oct 2010 at 10:35

Rent. For the love of all that is holy, rent. Go to Calumet and rent some lights for a weekend.

I use Profoto and rarely go above 2 lights for portrait, and always use the Monoblocks if possible. The packs are fine but are heavy.

If you're learning, grab yourself a secondhand sb800 instead. Spending 2 grand (tbh we sold all our Bowens kit as we found it unreliable) on lights to learn on is... foolish.