watch the ancient astronaut theory on discovery and post back with and argument worth reading. i am not interested in your ignorance and lack of knowledge.
Religion - I can understand someone believing in god/jesus, but why do they believe in the bible?
- Thread starter SkScotchegg
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watch the ancient astronaut theory on discovery and post back with and argument worth reading. i am not interested in your ignorance and lack of knowledge.
Read some textbooks on real summerian history, I would recommend:
Kramer S N (1971) The Sumerians: Their History, Culture, and Character UoC Press
At least that was what a friend of mine who has an MA in History recommends, though her specialty is Egypt.
Man of Honour
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And there we go.
These programmes are made for entertainment with no real evidence.
And before you start claiming I'm ignorant or have a lack of knowledge I've been into this stuff for the last 38 years and here is a screen grab of the latest stuff I have got to get through - http://www.disturbinthepeace.co.uk/pics3/supernatural.jpg
My lack of knowledge?, I asked for citation from any of scholars to which you refer and you say I am ignorant.
That is a very intriguing way to promote your argument. Maybe you could refute the actual translated evidence I supplied instead....
Which is what I would expect. While I am open to the idea of extraterrestrial explanations of Gods etc, I have yet to see any evidence I would accept as conclusive, and woukd not go so far as to suggest that it is accepted in mainstream academia as sajtion said.
the trouble with majority of archaeologist and historians is they won't tell or even try to explain you odd things that doesn't fit in the frames of their accepted norm of the world’s historical past. they would rather sell you their own twisted theories. i recommend that you do your own research and make your own conclusions. everyone is free to believe what they want. i'm not trying to convince anyone. i'm simply stating my own opinion
Just wondering, Castiel, why did you chose your username? I think, loosely translated, that it means 'God is my cover' in Hebrew. A strange name for an agnostic isn't it?
There are a few Castiels in fiction though. Anything to do with them?
There are a few Castiels in fiction though. Anything to do with them?
Purely associated with the fictional Angel in 'Supernatural', whose demeanour and appearance reflects my own according to my wife.
oh, and I nearly died on a Thursday and I like travel.
but generally its just a cool name...
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Twisted theories? Aren't you the one basing your knowledge on a Discovery Channel documentary? As opposed to Samuel N Kramer who was widely respected in his field?
Actually when you go around saying that people are ignorant and lack knowledge you move from "stating opinion" to pushing opinion. Especially when your own knowledge comes from a discovery channel documentary.
Man of Honour
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But a few posts back you called us ignorant.
When I was a child I took all of Eric Von Dannikens books in and read them as gospel (Ancient Astronaut theories) but after doing my research it was quite clear that von Danniken embellished stuff.
A good example was him pointing to UFO parking zones on the Nazca Plains but when I eventually discovered how big the zones were they were part of a giant spider and the UFOs would have to be about 2 foot in diameter.
His books are full of this BS and he is the Grandaddy of the ancient astronaut theories.
I'm quite embarrassed I used to believe in this stuff when I was younger.
Sometimes I do watch stuff and it makes me think.
For instance I was watching a documentary on friday and part of it was devoted to this doorway built half way up a mountain in Peru.
Legend has it that the Shaman had a metal disk that was sent down from the heavens and by putting it on the door it would open up so they could travel rather like a Stargate.
http://www.onelight.com/hollow/peruvianstargate.htm
I agree with you fully. What muslims take the Quran as, many christians do not take the Bible as - and that is the literal word of God, although I think some christian sects do.
I have never heard of him.
I would love to speak to a muslim who does not believe the Quran is the word of God. There are quite a few muslims on this forum actually, if any are reading this please do post! I have never ever come across one yet.
That is fair enough, but for you not to believe in the Bible or Quran, I assume you would have read both?
Someone else posted something similar, please do tell us what the 'entire point' of the Bible is?
You say this without bringing forward any evidence. Are you now claiming christians do not believe God to be 3 in 1, father/son/holy spirit, or a trinity as I suggested? I know christians who believe this.
Why don't you share with us the other ways then? I have simply stated one form of worship which comes up again and again in the Bible, by which I have never (maybe you have) seen any christians worship.
You seem to have entirely missed my point. I was showing how certain acts/rituals in the Bible are carried out by muslims yet seem to be abandoned by christians as a whole, yet you are not contesting this therefore you don't have an arguement.
No, I wouldn't.
I never said the Bible instructs anything, I said this is how Jesus Christ peace be upon him greeted from the Bible, and a similar if not xact same greeting is used in Islam, again showing a similarity between the 'actions' of muslims and the 'scripture' of Christianity.
Please read above.
Islam permits the death penalty in certain conditions, so does Christianity. Taking 'thou shalt not kill' for example and ignoring everything else in the Bible is not wise, it is plain silly.
Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing or do you have a point somewhere? I simply pointed out SIMILARITIES between Christian scripture and muslim practices. The Bible does say many things indeed, I never claimed Islam means 'all of them', you obviously haven't used the Bible at all in your arguement so I can only imagine you have pulled things from thin air.
At least though what I have shown/said about Christianity, I have backed up using the Bible. You haven't used anything yet you have tried to argue almost every point, as though what I quoted was made up, but we both know that it wasnt.
I was just reading the preface to my NRSV translation and I think there's a pretty succinct explanation of what the bible is at the end. I thought it was worth posting and it reflects my own view pretty well.
I think that comes close to the essence of it. As Christians read the Bible, although it is an ancient document written in foreign languages to cultures very different from our own we believe that we hear God speaking through it now. In that sense it becomes God's word to the reader. To someone who has never experienced that it can be very difficult to describe. Having the Creator speaking directly to you is a fantastic and wonderful thing, whatever means he chooses to use.
I think that comes close to the essence of it. As Christians read the Bible, although it is an ancient document written in foreign languages to cultures very different from our own we believe that we hear God speaking through it now. In that sense it becomes God's word to the reader. To someone who has never experienced that it can be very difficult to describe. Having the Creator speaking directly to you is a fantastic and wonderful thing, whatever means he chooses to use.
I think you are going more so of what you have heard, rather then what you have read.
You are correct in that the Bible/Quran do contain passages, containing and permitting violence. In Islam it is compulsory for a man to defend his family and home, even if he could be killed, if he is under attack he is absolutely permitted to defend himself and kill, instead of being killed.
Is it permitted though to walk into a cafe strapped with a bomb taking out innocent civilians? No it is not.
If you take one verse from the Quran which says 'kill the unbelievers', and solely use that, you will arrive at the wrong conclusion. It is only when you look at all the verses on that subject that you get the full picture, because you will never hear the media telling you that the Quran says 'if anyone kills an innocent soul, it is as though he has killed the whole of humanity'. The Quran clearly states the severity of taking one innocent life, but only when you read all the Quran yourself will you ever realise the full message.
You have just repeated what I said, that modest is subjective, yet tried to argue against me.
Ofcourse it is subjective, it is open to interpretation but as I said...it's only when you compile 'everything' the Quran and Hadith say on womens dresscode that you get an idea of what 'modest' is I have very little knowledge of sufism but it is something I am very keen to study, as the scholar who I follow the most, who I feel I have learnt the most from about my religion, speaks very very highly of sufism.
I do not think I said that.
Christians however can and indeed an entire movement that follow the teachings of Christ do not believe in God. Christian Atheism. We also have Jewish Secularism. Among the Abrahamic Religions, only Islam is so arrogant as to assume free will should be subservient to the will of God in all things, and then it is dependent entirely on interpretation.
You didn't say that, sorry I didn't mean to make it sound as though you did, I was simply trying to point out that 'some' things are not debateable because it takes you out of the fold of that religion.
eg. A muslim who doesn't believe in God.
A jew who worships many Gods.
A vegetarian who eats meat.
They are contradictions.
You say there are entire Christian movements who do not believe in God, I find that utterly bizarre since Jesus Christ pbuh spent his entire life calling people to the worship of God, so if these people call themself Christian, it doesn't necessarily make it so. I call myself muslim, that doesn't make it so either, it ultimately comes down to my beliefs, intentions, actions and deeds, and God alone is the judge.
I did at the end of my post "Christ as the son of God and the only way to salvation". As opposed to "I follow all the little rules and sayings to the letter much better than most Christians however I don't believe in Christ".
I am not really sure how you can say that you act more like a Christian when you deny what it actually means to be a Christian at heart.
Possibly because post after posts of bible quotes would be incredibly tedious. However if you do know the bible so well you should easily be able to see what I mean. Unless of course you don't actually know it very well and are just parroting one of the numerous "Why Islam is better!" websites?
Are you now claiming christians do not believe God to be 3 in 1, father/son/holy spirit, or a trinity as I suggested? I know christians who believe this.
The Trinity is still one God, just three different aspects of God. (It is also dogma rather than canon, but don't let that worry you.) Much like Allah can be all merciful and can also be all wrathful. If we take the abrahamic god as being real (which I don't) then surely it is hubris in the extreme to suggest he can be adequately described by man?
Quietly in private is one. In your heart is another. At no point does Jesus describe any form or ritual one must adhere to when praying.
No, what I am saying is that because muslims follow some of the acts and rituals described in the bible it does not make them better followers than Christians, primarily because they fail big style at the whole "believing in Christ" bit.
You honestly think that enforced charity is better than charity freely given?
But aren't you doing exactly the same? By saying you follow some of the more trivial actions in the bible it somehow makes you a better christian than one that follows none of the ritual but actually believes in Christ?
Of course it is similar, Islam is based on Judaism and Christianity. It incorporates large chunks of both.
Your bible quotes were not made up, it is your interpretation of them that I have issue with.
Soldato
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Personally, as Jesus taught in story and allegory, I don't see why the old testament would be any different. Crazy to think of the old book as factually correct when the new book talks of looking at the world around you, examining your inner thoughts and feelings before judging others.
Then to see folks charge off quote a version they agree with of a translated text of a book when eventually written that had been handed down by word of mouth only for generations, seeing how language on this planet evolves so swiftly, and then still thinking that each and every word is factually correct. I see that as Pride, a fairly hefty sin if one interprets things as their literal word.
God needed some way to explain laws and methods of good living to a stupid, primative unadvanced society. He chose The Word. He gave us the ability to reason, not to follow blindly, and most societies even those without religion have evolved (most I said) a similar set of beliefs and values, similar to The Word.
I don't believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth in a week of human time, and personally I think those who judge their own God by their own timescale, their own factors, their own believes is arrogent beyond measure. Ignoring and refuting anyone else because of what they think, thats not the all encompassing society that Jesus preached about. Funny how those Christians seem to be the most fundamental, most zealot-like and at the same time, least charitable, least understanding, and least willing to look at the World from someone elses POV, lacking in empathy, and lacking in Christianity.
Just my views.
Then to see folks charge off quote a version they agree with of a translated text of a book when eventually written that had been handed down by word of mouth only for generations, seeing how language on this planet evolves so swiftly, and then still thinking that each and every word is factually correct. I see that as Pride, a fairly hefty sin if one interprets things as their literal word.
God needed some way to explain laws and methods of good living to a stupid, primative unadvanced society. He chose The Word. He gave us the ability to reason, not to follow blindly, and most societies even those without religion have evolved (most I said) a similar set of beliefs and values, similar to The Word.
I don't believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth in a week of human time, and personally I think those who judge their own God by their own timescale, their own factors, their own believes is arrogent beyond measure. Ignoring and refuting anyone else because of what they think, thats not the all encompassing society that Jesus preached about. Funny how those Christians seem to be the most fundamental, most zealot-like and at the same time, least charitable, least understanding, and least willing to look at the World from someone elses POV, lacking in empathy, and lacking in Christianity.
Just my views.
Please don't.
Everything we read these days is about muslims. Myself? I've had enough of it. Lets not let a thread be overtaken by muslim rants here too. Enoughs enough.
