Can yoiu truly spot a Scam? Test yourself.

VFM Addict

VFM Addict

VFM Addict

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There have been many threads here about email scams. But there are many run every day in the UK face to face. How good are you at spotting a scam?

Here are two examples often operated extensively in the UK.

Example (a) - The Rates Reduction Scam

Guy walks into your business premises. The deal is that his company specilise in obtaining Business Rates Reductions for companies. They will appeal your current business rates to the Local Authoirity. They charge £300 but they are so successful at what they do they offer a money-back guarantee that unless they manage to your business rates reduced by at least the £300 per annum they will provide a full refund. There are no extra charges so any reduction above the £300 saving is yours to keep.

Note the money back guarantee is genuine. Can you spot the scam?

Example (b) - The EU Grant Search Scam

There are hundreds millions of pounds in Grants from the EU available to UK businesees. The deal is that this company will carry out as full search for grants that your company can apply for. The charge is £400 but they are so successfull at what they do they offer a money-back guarantee. Unless they can find at least grants of £2,000 for which you are eligible to apply they will refund the £400 in full. There are no extra charges.

Again the money-back guarantee is genuine. Can you spot the scam? (This one is a bit easier to spot than the first one.)

BTW in both cases the Scammers can truly direct you to lots of genuine UK businesses (satisfied customers) who have used their services and would highly recommend them.

I'll post the answers about how they work tomorrow evening (Wed 10 Nov). But can you see how they work even before I post. No cheating though by Googling. Try to work them out yourself.
 
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Even if you don't understand how they work you can still protect yourself, especially example (a). If someone "walks in" to my business they will be sent packing unless they have an appointment and the only way they would have an appointment is because I have booked them after doing research.

Example (b) is money upfront despite a money back guarantee which would ring alarm bells. Let them get the loan then take their fee from it.
 
imb4tman said:
Even if you don't understand how they work you can still protect yourself, especially example (a). If someone "walks in" to my business they will be sent packing unless they have an appointment and the only way they would have an appointment is because I have booked them after doing research.

Example (b) is money upfront despite a money back guarantee which would ring alarm bells. Let them get the loan then take their fee from it.
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I agree but I used the walk in as shorthand. In both cases they will make a wholly professional approach and book an appointment with you. They will send literature with lists of testimonials that check out as truly independent satisfied customers. They will argue that too often they get business rate reductions and grants but have a hell of a job getting paid. Paying up front with a genuine money back guarantee protects both them and you. Believe me the offers made above are fully as stated.
No shifty business but they are still scams where you lose out.

Try again can you spot how they work?
 
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Well for a start in example a, appealing business rates to your local authority is pointless as the rates are set by the Valuation Office Agency, which is a government department, and if you had cause for concern you would appeal to them directly.
 
b) I imagine I'm eligible to apply for every EU grant going. Of course, my application will get rejected from every one.
 
Anyone comes into my place trying to sell me anything gets a polite dressing down and shown the door.

Those asses from telephone companies are the best, claiming to be from BT Wholesale. I get at least one a week.

The best way to protect yourself is to reply "you'll need to set up an account to deal with us, I'll get you the forms". 99.9% of time wasters will not make it past that
 
VFM Addict said:
Try again can you spot how they work?
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But that was my point, you don't need to know how they work because a couple of simple steps and you can protect yourself.

I don't know anything about the EU loans but I do work with a lot of small businesses and rateable value is reviewed every 5 years, therefore there are a lot of people/companies offering services to reduce them. As said, it is something you can do yourself but having someone build a case by reviewing other business around yours is more likely to lead to a successful appeal.

As with almost every trade there will be scammers involved, either by not doing the job, getting you to pay for things you don't need or sign you up to unnecessary contracts. So if you don't want to do it yourself, do some research. Chances are your accountant will have seen this service used by other clients and will be able to recommend someone.
 
VFM Addict said:
unless they manage to your business rates reduced by at least the £300 per annum they will provide a full refund. There are no extra charges so any reduction above the £300 saving is yours to keep.

Note the money back guarantee is genuine. Can you spot the scam?
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Personally I'd send them packing as I wouldn't believe their guarantee.

The guarantee can be as genuine as you like but it won't protect you when they liquidate the company then start up again under a new name.

The thing I don't get is with you saying they are genuine. So the scam must be that you could apply for the rate reduction yourself for free?

Depending what they do it may be good value for £300 pounds unless the vast majority of businesses are being overcharged and a simple application without supporting evidence is all that is required to get a hefty reduction.
 
Re, Example B, scorza has hit the nail on the head. The scam is the use of the word, "eligible". Folks think it means, "will be granted", which of course it does not. Plus that the list of testimonials anf the genuine money back guarantee blind folk. Obviously, although very rare, some businesses will actually get the grant. These provide those happy customer testimonials. Everyone else was, "eligible", even though they didn't get the grant, so no refund.

Re example A - Actually, imb4tman, in many ways you're right. I'd always suggest that folks run things past their Accountant or even the local CoC who as usually aware of current scams.

However, given that genuine money-back guarantee you still haven't really explained where the scam is and how the business has anything to lose by going for it?
 
Is example A anything to do with any reduced amounts being backdated?

If the company appealed for and gotduced rates themselves they could have them back dated and get refunds on what they've over paid, but if the company comes in to do this they would claim the back dated stuff themselves?


I've no idea but this seemed like a possibilty.

Valve
 
VFM Addict said:
Example (a) - The Rates Reduction Scam

Guy walks into your business premises. The deal is that his company specilise in obtaining Business Rates Reductions for companies. They will appeal your current business rates to the Local Authoirity. They charge £300 but they are so successful at what they do they offer a money-back guarantee that unless they manage to your business rates reduced by at least the £300 per annum they will provide a full refund. There are no extra charges so any reduction above the £300 saving is yours to keep.

Note the money back guarantee is genuine. Can you spot the scam?
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Well if the money back guarentee is infact genuine, then its a cover to steal information such as bank details?


VFM Addict said:
Example (b) - The EU Grant Search Scam

There are hundreds millions of pounds in Grants from the EU available to UK businesees. The deal is that this company will carry out as full search for grants that your company can apply for. The charge is £400 but they are so successfull at what they do they offer a money-back guarantee. Unless they can find at least grants of £2,000 for which you are eligible to apply they will refund the £400 in full. There are no extra charges.

Again the money-back guarantee is genuine. Can you spot the scam?
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Well the scam may be that while they find grants, there is no guarentee you will get any of them, perhaps even almost no chance?..

However, this wouldnt really be a scam, they are providing a research service and not guarenteeing the savings?
 
platypus said:
Well for a start in example a, appealing business rates to your local authority is pointless as the rates are set by the Valuation Office Agency, which is a government department, and if you had cause for concern you would appeal to them directly.
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If we take this as fact, which i will....

VFM Addict said:
They will appeal your current business rates to the Local Authoirity.
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Do you mean local authority exactly or do you mean "relevant contact"..
(keeping money back in mind, we have two options)
1) The process to the scam involves them "holding" the funds for a period of time, as they will not get you the reduction, but they give you back the money?

2) If you meant "relevant contact" and was unaware of what platapus has said then it becomes irrelevent and i am back to my cover for stealing details explanation.

Burnsy2023 said:
I think you might be on to something there.
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That would be too simple, as i can think of many other easier ways, where you remain annonymous and still gain actionable intel. So im reluctant about it, except as a backup :D
 
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Example A might have something to do with backdated rates reductions? Whereby the company will persue the local authority on your behalf and reduce your rates (if thats at all possible which i doubt) but any refunds owed due to the reductions get pocketed by said company?
 
I cant get my head around the first one, the scam is either just offering the service in the first place because you can do it yourself or it's just a front for laundering money. How do they handle the fact an appeal can get your rates increased instead of being decreased?
 
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