Rioting in London?

Mojo said:
Of course it is, at the moment. However, when tuition fees go up so much that only the rich can pay to send their little Darling Henry (no offense to any individual named Henry) to Oxford or Cambridge, could you say the same? At the moment I know several friends who made it to Oxford. They are are all massively intelligent, and only one of them came from an upper middle class background. Saying that these individuals would go to Oxford even had the tuition fees been tripled or more (which sounds likely for these institutions) sounds utterly naive.
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While it was already mentioned as response to your post that nothing is paid upfront,I would also like to mention that, not too long ago, fees were a little more than a grand per year for all universities in England, regardless of their quality. This did not make more poor kids get into Oxford/Cambridge than it does now. The application process for these two unis is slightly more tedious than for the rest so there are different factors at play other than money.
 
The 'rioting' yesterday was a joke.

Basically made up of unwashed youths wanting to study Art, Peace Studies, Flower Arranging and Photography ( also read as all the under 25's who voted Lib Dem/Socialist because they could) ...

If you want a university education and the benefits that go with it... pay for it... if you don't.... don't go !

Plenty of companies are offering scholarship/apprentice schemes for school leavers at both 16 and 18 years old so its not as though you won't get training !

Aware what I have said will upset a few or more people but hey, whilst its close to sensationalist Daily Mail reporting, its also scarily true.

Edit - sorry, I also forgot to add how disappointed I was that Mr and Mrs Buntington-Smithe weren't on the TV saying how proud they were of their daughter Daisy Fleur standing up for what she believed in ....
 
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Mojo said:
Even those who are set on University will have to take into account that paying back in installments (even small ones) they are going to be around £50,000 in debt for what may amount to the rest of their lives, and that may put many of those with backgrounds of lesser means off University.
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Drop the impoverished background stuff as its totally meaningless. Infact if you are from a poor background, infact if you are from any background, and you never earn more than £21k, you will never pay a back a penny.

How much you pay back is ENTIRELY dependant on how much you earn. THE RICHER YOU BECOME, yes BECOME not 'ARE', as its all about how you do AFTER Uni, the more you pay back.

This has NOTHING to do with rich v poor and I'm at a loss to understand why people think it is.

It's not even debt in the conventional sense of the word. The baliffs never come round. It doesnt affect your credit rating, etc etc.
 
dante6491 said:
But it does not matter how much money you have. NOTHING IS PAID UP FRONT. Key point this, people will be put off by the headline figure, but if they are then they shouldn't be going to university anyway as they haven't read up about it. The poorest 30% are actually better off under this scheme as Darling Henry, as you put it, will be paying it back.
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Buy now nothing to pay for three years. That's right, no deposit and repayments can be made over thirty years or more at DFS degrees4u.

Seriously, how is this even going to help cut the deficit? The first students will only start paying back their loans in 2015 by which time the government have pledged to eliminate most of the deficit. Which means that for three years beforehand the government will have had to be shelling out nine grand per student per year, which in my book can only increase the deficit. This just seems like the government is using the need to cut public spending to push through idealogical changes to keep the lower classes out of higher education.
 
Inquisitor said:
Sure, and the solution is to lock out those who can't afford it, since they clearly don't deserve the privilege of university education as much as the better off members of society.
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Its not like they have to have pay up front??

Uni isnt the only option and to say that without Uni Education they will be on the dole is stupid. Majority of mates never went to Univeristy and they all have well paid jobs.

As i said Uni is just an easy 3 year **** up for a lot of students. Hopefully these new fees will ease the problem.
 
Over one million people took part in a peaceful protest against the Iraq war in this country.
The thing with peaceful protests,is they can be totally ignored by those we vote in to power...
The government will remember this protest,and,even with all the bleating about 'thugs' and 'totally unacceptable' it will have worried them more than a bit,considering this is only the start of at least 5 years of cuts,job losses,and general misery in the UK.
Clegg looked like he had been punched in the face at PMQ's,I think he knows it will be at least another 100 years before anyone lets the Liberals back into government again.
 
Well done to all involved, now how about a nice handful of powdered glass washed down with a refreshing pint of weed-killer to celebrate getting one over on the Bourgeoise? :rolleyes:
 
Von Smallhausen said:
I wonder how many of the baying mob will be voting Tory in a few years time ?
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None, as that would require them to be able to use a pen/pencil to make a mark, such elevated skills are beyond them. I suppose they could alter the election process so that you select your choice by throwing a vegetable at a different coloured piece of wood, then they might be able to do it.
 
"andy" said:
where do you think these would be students will go when they cant afford to go to uni ?

on the dole is the answer... there aren't any jobs for non graduates , there isn't any funded training (apprenticeships like there used to be. There aren't the jobs that used to be freed up by retirement because people aren't retiring.

gotta spend money to make money and labour where investing in the future with uni funding. it was just unlucky that a global economic crisis left thousands of college leavers jobless and forced into uni even though it wasnt what they really wanted
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This couldn't be more wrong, it wasn't unlucky, its been the case since LONG before the economic crisis that jobs weren't available to uni leavers.

Its quite simple, if 20% of people stay in education from 16 to 22, maybe 24 with masters/doctorates, then thats 6 or 8 less years they will work, trying to force 100% of kids into education for more years was nothing more than trying to hide unemployment, which has been Labours primary goal for everything they've done in the past decade.

We've made most UK degree's half worthless, which only encourages hiring more qualified people from abroad because theres not enough actually capable people leaving uni's anymore.

Students are utter moron's for rioting though it is truly hilarious that the "more educated" amongst us, supposedly, are incapable of seeing the danger of the current deficit on THEIR future, and the fact that its completely Labour thats responsible.

For me, that only confirms how pointless university has become. It used to be a place where the brighter people went and learnt not just what their course was about, but got involved in and learned about politics, talked about more interesting things. Now its a place for everyone to go, drink themselves half to death, go to no lectures play consoles and still pass the end of year exams.
 
Biohazard said:
"Don't get mad get even"
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The best way for grads to get even would be to refuse to get a job paying more than the loan pay back threshold until the government agree to something more equitable. The country would be universally screwed overnight.

But it's hard to get even without cutting your nose off to spite your face. If students done this though I think it would take a matter of months before the government caved in. All the students would have to do is show solidarity.
 
drunkenmaster said:
..... For me, that only confirms how pointless university has become. It used to be a place where the brighter people went and learnt not just what their course was about, but got involved in and learned about politics, talked about more interesting things. Now its a place for everyone to go, drink themselves half to death, go to no lectures play consoles and still pass the end of year exams.
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Sum's it up about right.
 
wordy said:
Don't want to pay back the tution fees?

Don't go to university.
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Herein lies the problem, Labour have spent the past decade persuading everyone life without a degree is worthless and that everyone fully deserves, is fully capable and absolutely should go to uni. They've managed to make A-levels and GCSE's pathetically easy to encourage this idea, which only makes a lot of very stupid people think they are more than capable of doing a degree.

Admittedly, they are now with the massive lack of difficulty and the truly embarassing increase in multiple choice exams throughout uni's in various subjects.

If only Labour left well enough alone, where people who were smart enough went and did complicated degree's and were a worthwhile commodity in both UK business and worldwide business.

One reason for a company to open up a new fabrication plant, or a R&D shop in the UK was lots of highly educated people in one location, now people look at the worthless nature of our degree's and are less likely to open one here than in any other country, theres simply no advantages to being here for new business.
 
wordy said:
Don't want to pay back the tution fees?

Don't go to university.
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I think that's why students are protesting, because they fear that is exactly what future students will do, particularly those from less well-off backgrounds.
 
drunkenmaster said:
For me, that only confirms how pointless university has become. It used to be a place where the brighter people went and learnt not just what their course was about, but got involved in and learned about politics, talked about more interesting things. Now its a place for everyone to go, drink themselves half to death, go to no lectures play consoles and still pass the end of year exams.
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Yup. Whereas it used to be the minority it is now the majority who are like this. God forbid that any of this generation get into positions of responsibility when they get older. If do then the country is guaranteed to go down the pan.
 
Superewza said:
Say what you will, if it gets people's attention and raises awareness of your cause then what's actually wrong with it? If the Tories didn't want to be robbed of a small amount of damage money, which they will probably get payed for them anyway, then they shouldn't have tried to rob the public of their education, jobs, forests, healthcare and a number of other things, should they?
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Well you're deluded aren't you? Are you a student by any chance? All the news has done is bring the wrong attention to the actions of an idiotic few. This means two things; 1. The protests no longer have the positive effects that were intended. 2. The protests have been demonised and made a waste of time.

The attention you hold so highly is exactly not what they needed.
 
drunkenmaster said:
For me, that only confirms how pointless university has become. It used to be a place where the brighter people went and learnt not just what their course was about, but got involved in and learned about politics, talked about more interesting things. Now its a place for everyone to go, drink themselves half to death, go to no lectures play consoles and still pass the end of year exams.
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If all fairness you're 28. How have you got any idea what university used to be like? My mother, father, grandparent etc all went to university. I can assure you they didn't spend their hold time studying. For instance may father was a member of a very dedicated poker club and they all enjoyed a drink. They all come out with good degrees from respectable establishments, my father has and MSc in Economics which is unusual for his time (late 60s early 70s). Students have always had a healthy appetite for extracurricular activities, and even now the ones that take it too far fail.
 
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