Rioting in London?

Conanius said:
The 'rioting' yesterday was a joke.

Basically made up of unwashed youths wanting to study Art, Peace Studies, Flower Arranging and Photography ( also read as all the under 25's who voted Lib Dem/Socialist because they could) ...
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Or... big logical step here. Maybe they voted lib dem because they wanted to, perhaps on the basis of their election promises and manifesto.

Conanius said:
Plenty of companies are offering scholarship/apprentice schemes for school leavers at both 16 and 18 years old so its not as though you won't get training !
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Plenty?

The job market isn't exactly well endowed at the present time.

Apprenticeships have been rare for years.
 
[TW]Fox;17764544 said:
Drop the impoverished background stuff as its totally meaningless. Infact if you are from a poor background, infact if you are from any background, and you never earn more than £21k, you will never pay a back a penny.

How much you pay back is ENTIRELY dependant on how much you earn. THE RICHER YOU BECOME, yes BECOME not 'ARE', as its all about how you do AFTER Uni, the more you pay back.

This has NOTHING to do with rich v poor and I'm at a loss to understand why people think it is.

It's not even debt in the conventional sense of the word. The baliffs never come round. It doesnt affect your credit rating, etc etc.
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The problem withe the current system is:
1. Bob could be from a very poor family. Bob receives his university education from grants that he doesn't have to pay back.
2. Fred could be from a family would earn more than the threshold for grants but his parents can't afford to pay for his tuition or maintenance and so he has to take the full loans, amounting to around £20,000 at the end of his degree including interest.

When Bob and Fred graduate they're both in the exact same position in regards to opportunities to get jobs. Neither have had to pay a penny while at University. Why is it fair that Fred has to pay 9% over his £15,000 salary (around £90 a month based on a £27,000 salary) whereas Bob pays nothing?

Either they should both pay or neither pay. I vote both. It'll reduce the amount of tuition fees as Fred isn't paying for Bob's tuition too any more.

Your level of student debt does affect your ability to get a mortgage as the brokers take in to account the amount that is withheld each month for the student loan and you therefore have a lower net wage, meaning you can get a smaller mortgage.
 
simulatorman said:
Yup. Whereas it used to be the minority it is now the majority who are like this. God forbid that any of this generation get into positions of responsibility when they get older. If do then the country is guaranteed to go down the pan.
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Unfortunately, we will have no other option that this generation growing up and everyone else getting old.

I'm also pretty sure most generations have had similar grumbles about their offspring.

:p
 
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Biohazard said:
Unfortunately, we will have no other option that this generation growing up and everyone else getting old.

I'm also pretty sure most generations have had similar grumbles about their offspring.

:p
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Yep, this place begins to sound more and more like a retirement home.

I happen to think the current generation is rather capable, at least the people I know. My pier group have made mistakes but they are all now successful people. They benefited from a university education that would now possibly be beyond some of them.

I have a couple of sisters who are 15 + 17 and it's frightening just how intelligent, responsible and together they and all their friends are. They should be given the vote. They all have a much greater interest and appreciation of politics that you average sun/daily mail reading 50-60 years old baby boomer moron.
 
topshot said:
As i said Uni is just an easy 3 year **** up for a lot of students. Hopefully these new fees will ease the problem.
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If they don't have to pay up front, how will it ease the problem? You seem to be denying my argument and then using it yourself.

I also completely reject that this is a necessary measure to reduce the deficit in the short term. It'll have zero effect until the firsts students for it to affect actually start repaying their loans, probably in about 4 or 5 years.

And if reducing the deficit is so important, why are we giving £5 billion tax breaks to large companies for no good reason?
 
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bloodiedathame said:
Would probably make people think twice about using Uni as an excuse to have a good time.
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And at the same time make people think twice about using uni as a means to attain an education.

Don't get me wrong, I wholly agree that there are far too many people at university these days who simply shouldn't be there, but the solution is not to increase the cost of university; rather we should be discouraging people who won't benefit from academic study from actually going to university.
 
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Inquisitor said:
And at the same time make people think twice about using uni as a means to attain an education.

Don't get me wrong, I wholly agree that there are far too many people at university these days who simply shouldn't be there, but the solution is not to increase the cost of university; rather we should be discouraging people who won't benefit from academic study from actually going to university.
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Why is it not? At the end of the day everyone still has the option of going but it means they will need to work hard and do a useful degree that will help them get a decent job to pay off their student fees etc. Will stop a lot of people applying to do a pointless degree just for the sake of going to uni
 
I didn't think the purpose of the fees increase was to reduce the deficit, but rather to pump more money into the courses so that they can deliver better education? I don't really see this as a viable solution to reduce the deficit anyway, it just seems to be alienating millions of students.

I think post-18 education should be paid for, as it is a privilege, not a right. The fees do not prevent anyone from starting though, but they are agreeing to pay it back after earning £21k. Like Fox said, if you don't earn that, you don't pay a penny, and after 25 years the debt is wiped anyway afaik.

Don't forget the govt. are putting funding in the right places, for Maths and Science degrees so if you decide to take a course in those, the fees will be even less, thanks to grants. I don't like the idea of people doing 'mickey mouse' degrees and not paying back their loan thanks to a 13k job in *insert random supermarket here* but if anything, that should get rid of those courses.

Weird to see people crying for free education, after 13 years (primary through secondary) of free education, you'd hope people are willing to pay something back to the govt. if they wish to further their studies with a degree. Hopefully this £9k figure being thrown around will cause people who don't really need to go to uni to reconsider...

FYI, I'm a student with a working class background and I don't expect everything to be handed to me on a silver plate.
 
topshot said:
Why is it not? At the end of the day everyone still has the option of going but it means they will need to work hard and do a useful degree that will help them get a decent job to pay off their student fees etc. Will stop a lot of people applying to do a pointless degree just for the sake of going to uni
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It'll also stop a lot of people applying to do a degree that, while academically and socially valuable, won't help them pay of their enormous debts.

I've posted it before, but here it is again:

 
Inquisitor said:
It'll also stop a lot of people applying to do a degree that, while academically and socially valuable, won't help them pay of their enormous debts.
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why will it? if they earn under the threshold they wont pay it back?
The only ones i can see it putting off are the ones who apply for the sake of it, just to do something for 3 years with their mates.

Oh and i can access what you are linking??
 
For a group of people in higher education, thus one would assume to be of a higher intelligence, they sure have been shown up to be rather foolish over all this.
 
90nfnk.jpg


Awesome sign lol (pic taken by a friend who went)
 
Seems like a retarded sign written by a bitter individual to me.

Probably doing a meaningless degree as well.
 
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