Can yoiu truly spot a Scam? Test yourself.

Could it be the oldest one in the book that's in lock stock?

Company takes your £300 into a shared bank account, if you ask for money back they write a cheque from "bum willy dirty old men sex toys ltd" in the hope that you don't cash the cheque in shame?
 
There have been many threads here about email scams. But there are many run every day in the UK face to face. How good are you at spotting a scam?

Here are two examples often operated extensively in the UK.

Example (a) - The Rates Reduction Scam

Guy walks into your business premises. The deal is that his company specilise in obtaining Business Rates Reductions for companies. They will appeal your current business rates to the Local Authoirity. They charge £300 but they are so successful at what they do they offer a money-back guarantee that unless they manage to your business rates reduced by at least the £300 per annum they will provide a full refund. There are no extra charges so any reduction above the £300 saving is yours to keep.

Note the money back guarantee is genuine. Can you spot the scam?

Example (b) - The EU Grant Search Scam

There are hundreds millions of pounds in Grants from the EU available to UK businesees. The deal is that this company will carry out as full search for grants that your company can apply for. The charge is £400 but they are so successfull at what they do they offer a money-back guarantee. Unless they can find at least grants of £2,000 for which you are eligible to apply they will refund the £400 in full. There are no extra charges.

Again the money-back guarantee is genuine. Can you spot the scam? (This one is a bit easier to spot than the first one.)

BTW in both cases the Scammers can truly direct you to lots of genuine UK businesses (satisfied customers) who have used their services and would highly recommend them.

I'll post the answers about how they work tomorrow evening (Wed 10 Nov). But can you see how they work even before I post. No cheating though by Googling. Try to work them out yourself.

Just a guess but

1) They tell the council you can't afford your business rates for a couple of months -- council says 'OK don't pay it you owe us', company claims it's done it's stuff. Before you say 'the council would never agree' oh yes they would .. hell I've had central government agree to give me a couple of months to get my VAT together ...


1) Alternative) Technicality when you appeal your business rates, the system is they are put on hold any payments for a short time whilst the investigation is done -- once done, if its not reduced, you have to pay the dosh with interest -- but the scam company did get you your reduction so takes their cut... although there wasn't a hope in hell of it being permanently reduced??

2) AS someone else said 'eligible to apply'. Hey guess what, you 'elible to apply' to be the next mayor of London as an independent candidate. That job has a £160,000 salary. My job is done, gimme my finders fee???
 
Many apologies for the wait folks.:o:o:o Nasty, unexpected and all consuming attack of the in-laws on Wednesday evening and already had lots of commitments for Thursday. I share your pain in waiting but I suspect it wasn’t as uncomfortable as mine. ;) Anyway back to the thread topic.

To first cover what is and what isn’t a scam. Personally I think that getting someone to buy something which isn’t really what it says it is a scam. If it isn’t the legendary PS2 box sale was not a scam because it was accurate.

Returning to A & B

Firstly, yes, any business can apply for a reassessment by the Local Valuation Officer. Although officially independent of the Local Authority they are allocated effectively to cover the same boundaries.

Its not a difficult form to complete but an awful lot of small businesses, often retailers, just can’t be bothered to do it so they jump at the chance of someone doing it for them. So the scammer has easy pickings. Usually the scammers have someone tele-canvassing and booking appointments. So the salesperson who is usually just a hard closer will have six to ten appointments a day. He’ll expect to close the deal around 50% of the time. These companies also often use unemployed people (on the dole) and pay them on a commission only basis. To make it easier each salesperson will carry a brag file, a book full of testimonial letters from happy satisfied customers. They all check out as genuine companies and if contacted will genuinely and honestly recommend the scammer.

The scammers cannot lose. The just fill out the form asking for a reassessment If a reduction results then they keep the £300 and naturally they’ll ask for a testimonial letter to add to their brag file. If there is in the end no reduction they just refund the £300. No law was broken, they fulfilled their contract, no fraud. But as was said by one peep earlier, a reassessment can go either way and for some victims the outcome will be increased rates.

There are many variations on this scam. I’ve seen some offering a very low fee indeed plus 50% of the amount saved in the first year only, nothing after that. Yet again it can sound good deal. Yet again the scammer cannot lose. But the victim can if the rates are increased.

Essentially both scams can be run literally forever because there is nothing illegal going on. For the scammers it is purely a numbers game and with a couple of good telecanvassers booking appointments and a few good salespeople the pickings can be very good indeed. *No, Don’t Try This At Home Yourselves*

One last thing about scams, I haven’t heard of the Driving Pass Scam for a number of years now and I do wonder if it still goes on? That was a classic run be independent driving instructors looking for extra income. They usually pulled it on drivers who took the test in their car (i.e. the Instructor’s car) and who they knew were easily capable of passing but who had failed the first time. It goes basically something like this. The Instructor says, “Heck there’s no way you should have failed. Some old problem I guess. The examiners are only allowed to pass a certain percentage of drivers each month. I know that because I know one of the admin guys at the Test Centre. So it’s always a bit of a lottery. ” Then when your retest comes along, “I asked my mate to see who you were scheduled to be tested by. Its bad news really. My mate at the centre says this guy is a bit of a **** and usually only passes either women he fancies or where there’s something in it for him. It seems he usually expects his palm to be greased with £100. Seems its common knowledge down at the centre but no-one ever does anything about it. A lot of folks it seems cough up the £100 because it’s pretty safe to do so. After all this guy is never going to admit he took a bribe from anyone is he? It’s up to you but if you want I could get my mate at the centre to slip him his blood money so you’d be certain to pass? If not then I’d suggest you cancel and rebook. Hopefully you won’t get allocated to this blokes list next time.”

Of course the Instructor doesn’t actually know anyone and will be bribing no-one. He’s running a scam but a pretty safe one for him. It is his word against yours if it ever came to it. So some folks bite and pass over the £100. Others cancel the test and then rebook. That means more lessons before it comes around again. Either way the Instructor wins.

On the day of the test, as any instructor will tell you, the look on the learner’s face after the test instantly indicates if it was a Pass or Fail. If it’s a pass the Instructor will just smile and wink. Why not, he’s just made a £100 and the learner’s happy because he’s passed his test. If it’s a fail the Instructor can see it on the learner’s face and so hands the money back instantly even before being asked, saying something along the lines of, “My mate was off sick today and couldn’t get the money to that ****. Sorry.” The instructors knows that you’re never going to say anything, are you? It’s not likely you’re going to complain to the authorities that you tried to bribe an examiner and it didn’t work.”

If anyone is interested, the best fast one I have ever known of, theft really rather than a scam, was carried out by a lorry driver who drank in my local. He used to work for a chain of off-licences and managed to steal fifty or sixty full bottles worth of alcohol from cases of Gin, Whisky, Rum, Vodka, etc., without removing the cases from his lorry; without even opening the cases and without his bosses even realising that a theft had even occurred. This guy was a genius, a petty criminal genius obviously but nonetheless a genius. As I say, if anyone is interested in how it was done, I’ll post with the answer. TRULY by tomorrow at the latest :D Or perhaps someone can work it out first?
 
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You better tell us tomorrow.

Or I'll make sure I get reinstated as a Don and smash your arse in.

:p
 
You better do it OP, we all know he'd bloody well love to!

Edit - lorry scam. Wouldn't that be quite simple? Just put a bit of broken Jack Daniels bottle with some of it around it on one part of the lorry.

Say it broke and you threw it out?
 
You better do it OP, we all know he'd bloody well love to!

Edit - lorry scam. Wouldn't that be quite simple? Just put a bit of broken Jack Daniels bottle with some of it around it on one part of the lorry.

Say it broke and you threw it out?

Yep will post full answer tomorrow but I'll give folks until then to work it out. Re your suggestion, no all the cases remained on the lorry unopened.
 
Could it be that someone in authority gave him some kind of power over the manifests? So he may have had say 64 cases on the truck, but doctored the manifest to say 63 and he had done it for so long that 63 cases was just the number that was expected at the end?
 
He used to work for a chain of off-licences and managed to steal fifty or sixty full bottles worth of alcohol

I feel that I may have found a key point in this one.

God knows how, smashing, drilling etc, but something allowed him to get the booze out of the bottles and into a bottle of his own?
 
I feel that I may have found a key point in this one.

God knows how, smashing, drilling etc, but something allowed him to get the booze out of the bottles and into a bottle of his own?

You're on the right track. All you need to work out is the, "God knows how...." bit :D
 
I have one golden rule... if someone approaches me offering a service... run a mile.

(its basic art of war - by approaching you they have the upper hand and you have to work out their game)
 
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I have one golden rule... if someone approaches me offering a service... run a mile.

You'd think most business people would be like that but strangely they are not. The Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) have built a massive organisation/income by, in the main, having folks cold calling getting people to join to take advantage of its services, especially the Professional Expenses Protection Insurance that comes with the membership but which like a lot of insurances is all but impossible to make a claim under when push comes to shove.

The other organisation that works like that is The Guild of Master Craftsmen. Their only real plus is that you can use their logo which gives the impression to punters that you have in some way qualified as a Master Craftsman. You have qualified. By paying your membership !!! Indeed, we could all join and profess ourselves to be Master Craftsmen Posters.............:D
 
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