Can yoiu truly spot a Scam? Test yourself.
- Thread starter VFM Addict
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i still dont get how A) is a scam
you said in your OP that the money back guarantee is genuine
where is the scam ?
do they get some peoples rates reduced ? and if not, do they give you back your money
Well all they are doing is apply for the Local Valuation Officer to reassess you. You could do that yourself. It takes no time to complete the form really. If you get your rates reduced they keep the £300 really for doing next to nothing. If you don't get a reduction they will give you your money back. However, as they have done nothing to check to see if you are most probably over-assessed there is an equal chance that you were under-assessed and if your rates are increased you're on your own, matey. So you've paid £300 just so you can pay more business rates !!! The scam is really that their brag file of testimonial letters suggests that they get lots of reductions and that they are good at it, which they are not. In reality the testimonial letters come from just the small percentage where the numbers game worked.
You're on the right track. All you need to work out is the, "God knows how...." bit
Syringing?
Not really a scam though - you said it yourself in the previous post that these businesses cant be bothered to fill the forms or get the relevant information together. You could quite easily say having an accountant to do your tax return is a scam on the same basis.
Poor usage of the word 'scam' really...
ps3ud0
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Personally I still think its a scam. As I said earlier its akin to the possibly true story of the guy who offered a PS2 Box for sale. Techinically correct but most people would call that a scam.
The scam in this case is that the service appears to offer more than you could do yourself and the brag file of testimonials, all genuine, gives the impression of typical reduction success.
I do agree though it isn't fraud but does a scam truly have to be fraud to be a scam? Personally I think not. I think misrepresentation is sufficient.
The scam in this case is that the service appears to offer more than you could do yourself and the brag file of testimonials, all genuine, gives the impression of typical reduction success.
I do agree though it isn't fraud but does a scam truly have to be fraud to be a scam? Personally I think not. I think misrepresentation is sufficient.
Soldato
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scam (skm) Slang
n.
A fraudulent business scheme; a swindle.
tr.v. scammed, scam·ming, scams
To defraud; swindle.
None of that happened, ergo neither are a scam
- Pea0n
I dont think it is - the PS2 Box incident is more about being intentionally mislead, where the outcome for receiver is never going to be good (unless they actually need a box
) while the Business Rates 'scam' seems more to be a service to profit from peoples innate laziness/lack of understanding.Theres a definite nuance between the two scenarios...
So tell me why you dont think Tax Accounting isnt a 'scam' (assumption from your logic)? I would have thought an Accountant would have cherry-picked records of previous clients and the saving they have made for them. Thats just plain marketing...
I would probably say a scam is where the no chance of a good outcome for the scammed person and its the scammers sole intention to ensure that.
ps3ud0
An accountant would assess from your records and turnover the possible savings they are likely to achieve and the relevant fee you are likely to incur. They are not out to trick you into paying extra for services which are unlikely to assist your business... otherwise you will stop using their services and likely to tell all those you know to also stop using them.
An accountant is only as good as their word in the scheme of local businesses.
An accountant is only as good as their word in the scheme of local businesses.
Associate
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Hooray, I was on the right track with the first scenario!
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I dont think it is - the PS2 Box incident is more about being intentionally mislead, where the outcome for receiver is never going to be good (unless they actually need a box
To use your own turn of phrase punters are, "intentionally mislead", by the rate reduction scammers. First, into believing that there is no way they could lose out (untrue). Second, that the scammer has a consistently high success rate (also untrue).
I guess though that we will never agree on this one. As I said earlier, for me gross misrepresentation is sufficient to categorize something as a scam.
I do find it staggering though that so very, very many otherwise shrewd business people have fallen for both of the scams/dubious activities
which I listed. Speak to accountants and every single one will have had a few clients who have been taken in and fallen victim to one or in some cases both of (A) and (B) in the past.
Man of Honour
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It was an xbox box and was a play on words where most people missed one of the words.
We on OCUK complained to Ebay and got the ad taken away.
do they give back your money if they dont get a reduction? i think you said they did....
even if you are paying them to do something you could do yourself (fill out the form)
there are many business like this (where you pay someone to do something you could do yourself)
as long as they give you back your money if you are not succesful , then its not a scam
even if you are paying them to do something you could do yourself (fill out the form)
there are many business like this (where you pay someone to do something you could do yourself)
as long as they give you back your money if you are not succesful , then its not a scam
You're on the right track. All you need to work out is the, "God knows how...." bit
I assume smashed the box over a bucket and collected the spillage, I guess he could re-bottle and sell on very cheaply but he probably just drank it himself / gave to friends.
All his bosses find are 'more' breakages, christ kenneth can you take the bends a little more slowly!!
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I refer my honorable friend, Paul11, to my answer in post 72. The service is sold to businesses on the basis that they cannot lose due to the money back guarantee, when in reality they can lose very significantly via a rates increase -the service is also sold on the basis that these people are experts and the success rate is high which is absolutely untrue. They have no expertise a the success rate is relatively low.
As I said it isn't fraud but it is gross misrepresentation. I consider that a scam.
As I said it isn't fraud but it is gross misrepresentation. I consider that a scam.
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Yep, Telescopi, that's the core of it but this guy did it somewhat more elegantly and completely.
What he did was use a nail to make a hole exactly in one of the top corners of each case of drink and one in the exactly opposite bottom corner of each case. Not a large hole, hardly noticeable. Then he'd dropped each case a few times until a few bottles broke. He then poured the booze out into a funnel and into one of those large glass beer brewing jars. He lined the funnel with a paper coffee filter to trap any really tiny shards of glass. I seem to recall he said he managed to get the equivalent of three to four bottle of booze out of each case quite quickly and the rest just dripped all over the lorry bed.
Once he finished he ruffed the corners a little so you wouldn't notice the tiny holes and the cases appeared totally unopened. After dropping the proceeds off he put his lorry part way down a small gully/ditch while swerving to avoid a non-existent dog that ran across the road. Naturally his load went everywhere and a lot of cases had hard falls. Even needed a tow truck to pull it out.
His employers never suspected a thing. After all, not a single case was missing, not a single case had been opened, the lorry bed was wet with booze and obviously quite a lot had evaporated by the time the lorry was dragged out and the transport manager and spare driver arrived with another vehicle to transfer the load.
What he did was use a nail to make a hole exactly in one of the top corners of each case of drink and one in the exactly opposite bottom corner of each case. Not a large hole, hardly noticeable. Then he'd dropped each case a few times until a few bottles broke. He then poured the booze out into a funnel and into one of those large glass beer brewing jars. He lined the funnel with a paper coffee filter to trap any really tiny shards of glass. I seem to recall he said he managed to get the equivalent of three to four bottle of booze out of each case quite quickly and the rest just dripped all over the lorry bed.
Once he finished he ruffed the corners a little so you wouldn't notice the tiny holes and the cases appeared totally unopened. After dropping the proceeds off he put his lorry part way down a small gully/ditch while swerving to avoid a non-existent dog that ran across the road. Naturally his load went everywhere and a lot of cases had hard falls. Even needed a tow truck to pull it out.
His employers never suspected a thing. After all, not a single case was missing, not a single case had been opened, the lorry bed was wet with booze and obviously quite a lot had evaporated by the time the lorry was dragged out and the transport manager and spare driver arrived with another vehicle to transfer the load.
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Can't disagree with that mate. But I guess that much booze would have cost a delivery driver two weeks wages to buy. Its very easy to forget how little some folks make.
I'm always amazed that the average UK salary is under £25K. When you consider that that average is bumped up by a lot of high earners then the vast majority of folks must be earning under £25K. Yet apart from a few youngsters I don't know anyone earning under £25K. Maybe that's because I live in the SE on the outskirts of London. Perhaps up North its the norm???
I'm always amazed that the average UK salary is under £25K. When you consider that that average is bumped up by a lot of high earners then the vast majority of folks must be earning under £25K. Yet apart from a few youngsters I don't know anyone earning under £25K. Maybe that's because I live in the SE on the outskirts of London. Perhaps up North its the norm???
