Supplements the debate/discussion thread

BennyC said:
I think there probaly would be a market for it as a lot of people like to 'buy into things' as a quick fix. Slendertone belts for example. But weather it's big enough or profitable enough is another question.

I think if you were considering edging over to the dark side having a pre-mapped cycle could be handy but we can't discuss that here.

I for one like to do my own homework as do many others and to understand what effects the substances that we're putting into our body will have and also exactly what we're putting in. A lot of people like to learn this sort of stuff so on the other hand you might find people reluctant to part with cash for knowledge when it's readily available for free on the internet.

Unless you had some celebrity endorsements or good testamonials I don't think it'd be hugely succesful. Be likely selling to the same sort of people that think whey powder itself gives you gains and that doing 10,000 crunches will give you visible rippling abs.
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The gym/personal trainer market is worth a lot - membership fees can be pretty steep.

I've no doubt that it could be sold - the interesting part for me would be whether it stepped beyond the current supplements and into more effective reagents. I think that you could make a strong case that it would be safer for experts to prescribe dosage and routines, rather than have the general public play around with things themselves.

You guys here obviously put some effort into working out what you are doing, but really you've only scratched the surface of what is going on with your bodies, and the relative qualities of what you take. Wouldn't you prefer a regulated service that customized products for your individual needs?
 
Originally posted by "The Craig"
Could have got 5kg flavoured whey at myprotein for £40+ delivery when pricematching www.bodybuildingwarehouse.co.uk
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Originally posted by "The Craig"
I hear what your saying but the reason I chose unflavoured was for several reasons, firstly the type of protein shake I'm going for, you can get all different types depending on your own situation in terms of bulking or cutting and also if your alergic to something, and secondly was the price, I found the protein shake I needed and previously I've been paying £35 a month for 2.2kg and then I got 4kg a month for £30 and now I've found 5kg for £35 but on the same site if I got the same shake in chocalate or any other flavour, it lowered the protein and added other unwanted things, so instead I thought for my situation I'd rather get unflavoured, and £35 for 5kg is amazing, its the best I've ever seen. On other websites that I've used for past year 4.5kg would be around £70. So am happy with £35 for 5kg.

Originally posted by "The Craig"
As for nesquik, do you really need the nesquik to mask the taste? If so, do you really need 15g?
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Good point, I could just use less I guess, my main question though really was if you thought the carbs/sugar was really bad or if it was next to nothing and wouldnt be worth even thinking about. But yeah I might just get it and instead of putting 15g in like it says on the tub, I could just put 5g in.

Originally posted by "The Craig"
Also it looks like you're eating a lot of food, 5 bananas a day too ? You could probably eat a fair bit less although 2 hours of cardio a day is a lot.
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Well I posted my diet on other bodybuilding websites and they seem to think its pretty clean for someone my size and they even said they reckon this diet would get me lean. I've only been on this diet for past two weeks, but the results have been amazing so far, I've lost over a stone and thats on 5 meals a day. 2 hours cardio might seem allot, but I thought since I'm cutting I need to do the extra work, but tbh I've always been cardio crazy for past 3 years coz I was 24 stone when I started, so not exactly your normal person.
Originally posted by "The Craig"
Also, you dont have a late night meal? I'd cut the carbs from that (unless you train at night?) and eat cottage cheese or quark before bed.
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I don't know what quark is, I dont eat cottage cheese, I tried to because everone said its so amazing for you but I cant stand the taste as I dont like any cheeeses. I was thinking of having a protein shake before bed from this point onwards, I wasnt quite sure which time of the day is most important to eat, on bodybuilding.com they said after a workout within half an hour is most important time. And yeah I usually workout on an evening between 6pm-10pm.
Originally posted by "The Craig"
edit: 3 tins of tuna a day? You're eating an insane amount tbh count the calories of all that, and try get some variation.
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I don't think so mate, if I am 265 pounds then I need to eat 265 pounds of protein, I have to retain the muscle I've gained over the past 3 years aswell as cut at the moment and then once am finished cutting I have to gain muscle aswell has retain muscle so weather am cutting or bulking I'd still eat loads of protein.
Originally posted by "The Craig"
Edit: Also after getting chocolate mint and strawberry cream whey from MP, I've decided chocolate mint is too minty and strawberry cream tastes really nice.
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I dont really care about taste but obviously you can't drink raw protein powder and water, you need something in it. In the past when I have bought chocalate or strawberry I see other people on websites where I buy write things like "this taste awful" but I don't really care about that, I care more about whats in it, I like to drink a shake with 50g of protein and next to zero carbs and fat.
 
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SkScotchegg said:
Well I posted my diet on other bodybuilding websites and they seem to think its pretty clean for someone my size and they even said they reckon this diet would get me lean. I've only been on this diet for past two weeks, but the results have been amazing so far, I've lost over a stone and thats on 5 meals a day. 2 hours cardio might seem allot, but I thought since I'm cutting I need to do the extra work, but tbh I've always been cardio crazy for past 3 years coz I was 24 stone when I started, so not exactly your normal person.


I don't think so mate, if I am 265 pounds then I need to eat 265 pounds of protein, I have to retain the muscle I've gained over the past 3 years aswell as cut at the moment and then once am finished cutting I have to gain muscle aswell has retain muscle so weather am cutting or bulking I'd still eat loads of protein.


I dont really care about taste but obviously you can't drink raw protein powder and water, you need something in it. In the past when I have bought chocalate or strawberry I see other people on websites where I buy write things like "this taste awful" but I don't really care about that, I care more about whats in it, I like to drink a shake with 50g of protein and next to zero carbs and fat.
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Whats the kcals pro/fat/carb breakdown on your current diet if you dont mind me asking?
You dont need 265g of protein because you weight 265lbs doing it by 1g per lbs of lean body mass is a better way, your fat doesnt need protein.
I know at least FF and probably a few others on here eat a relatively low amount of protein compaired to what many think you should and he has no problem keeping mass.
If you dont care about taste then leave the nesquik out completely, no point putting it in and worrying yourself over the crap quality carbs if your happy enough with unflavoured.
 
I think I eat about 180g (max) of protein a day and holding steady, if anything also developing strength and endurance still. SPW saw me last Sunday and I think he'd agree that whilst still looking like I carry a decent amount of muscle mass, I'm also looking leaner but just as strong as I was. :) Then again I'm only eating around 2.8-3k cals a day at the moment and it's doing me fine. :) Dropped down to below 15st for my summer holiday, and now 4 months later I'm back up to 15,8 with low body fat - I'm at my lowest I've ever been at just around 15%. Striations in the shoulders are clear to see, vascularity is hugely increased especially around the shoulders.

I've gone more and more off the idea of hyperloading with stupid amounts of protein - if you're not increasing your protein synthesis then it's pointless increasing the amount of protein to unnecessary levels.
 
tbh actually you guys have just made me think, for past few years I've tried to eat around 250-300g a day of protein because thats what I thought I should do.

I've been walking around at 300 pounds for quite some time and if you read articles and forums online 50% of the time they say 1lb per lean muscle and the other 50% of the time I've read 1lb per pound of body weight...so not really sure what to do.

But the thing is I been losing weight fine by eating 5 meals a day so I cant be eating too much, If I wasnt losing weight then I'd be concerned.


EDIT: Well is there anyway someone can workout for me how many grams of carbs, protein and fat I should be taking per day whilst cutting, and how much when am bulking?
 
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SkScotchegg said:
tbh actually you guys have just made me think, for past few years I've tried to eat around 250-300g a day of protein because thats what I thought I should do.

I've been walking around at 300 pounds for quite some time and if you read articles and forums online 50% of the time they say 1lb per lean muscle and the other 50% of the time I've read 1lb per pound of body weight...so not really sure what to do.

But the thing is I been losing weight fine by eating 5 meals a day so I cant be eating too much, If I wasnt losing weight then I'd be concerned.


EDIT: Well is there anyway someone can workout for me how many grams of carbs, protein and fat I should be taking per day whilst cutting, and how much when am bulking?
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heard various numbers for amounts of protein, 1.5g per lean lb body mass, 2x bodyweight in kilos etc.. I tend to just keep it high and not go overboard (Currently probably getting ~200g-240g a day. Overall if you're losing weight on your current diet then it can't be too bad.

As for your diet, I'd add a bit more variation at least, 5 bananas and 3 tins of tuna can't be a great idea, have you tried salmon/mackerel or more oily fish? Also for pre-bed protein buy some milk protein/slow release protein if you want to have a shake.

Quark is a soft cheese personally I dont like the taste but others do and its good fuel (wereas I do like cottage cheese :p)

Some articles you could read:

http://www.the-gi-diet.org/lowgifoods/
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne36.htm
http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/protein.aspx

Also prob. best to start a new thread or continue this in the gym rats thread rather than supplements talk.
 
SkScotchegg said:
tbh actually you guys have just made me think, for past few years I've tried to eat around 250-300g a day of protein because thats what I thought I should do.
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Jeez, that's a lot. How do your kidneys feel?!

Can anybody provide a link that condones that level of protein intake per day.

There's a big concern that you guys are doing long term damage with the input balances that you have.

This is not medical advice, nor wanting the unduly twist the thread into medical discussion, but it looks like some of you guys ought to think about this aspect too.
 
sedm1000 said:
Jeez, that's a lot. How do your kidneys feel?!

Can anybody provide a link that condones that level of protein intake per day.

There's a big concern that you guys are doing long term damage with the input balances that you have.

This is not medical advice, nor wanting the unduly twist the thread into medical discussion, but it looks like some of you guys ought to think about this aspect too.
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How do you mean? I imagine that every diet posted by one of the people that train is 10 times better than a normal diet that most people live by and do you have any links to show increased protein consumption causes problems in a healthy individual with no under lying renal issues?
 
sedm1000 said:
Jeez, that's a lot. How do your kidneys feel?!

Can anybody provide a link that condones that level of protein intake per day.

There's a big concern that you guys are doing long term damage with the input balances that you have.

This is not medical advice, nor wanting the unduly twist the thread into medical discussion, but it looks like some of you guys ought to think about this aspect too.
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I eat between 350-400g a day ;) haha.
 
sedm1000 said:
Jeez, that's a lot. How do your kidneys feel?!

Can anybody provide a link that condones that level of protein intake per day.

There's a big concern that you guys are doing long term damage with the input balances that you have.

This is not medical advice, nor wanting the unduly twist the thread into medical discussion, but it looks like some of you guys ought to think about this aspect too.
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Big concern from where? Why? What reason is there to think that an omnivore with healthy kidneys cannot consume a large amount of protein on a consistent basis? It's quite clear that a carnivore can get by eating ONLY protein and fat, so why would an omnivore have trouble from getting 1/4 to 1/3 of its calories from protein?
 
I was of the impression that large quantities of protein was fine for someone with fully working kidneys, but potentially damaging for those with 'bad' kidneys.
 
odevans said:
10kg of whey! That would probably last me over a year and a half! Those are both lovely flavours by the way, especially the mint.
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I appear to be in the vast minority of my dislike of chocolate mint.

Also pro tip: Mixing whey into your porridge, saves me adding jam or other nonsense and I have a shake anyways in the morning.

Tastes best with BBW chocolate cookie.
 
This splits two ways:

First, there are relatively strong associations between osteoporosis, kidney dysfunction and high protein diets in humans. It is hard to do proper long term human studies, but there is some evidence for risk at much lower levels of protein input than you guys are taking. In animals, high protein diets enlarge and damage kidneys.

Secondly, it's very difficult to tell quite what is in the protein and other supplements that you buy online - especially when you are looking for the cheapest sort of protein. It is quite easy for unpleasant organic compounds used in extractions and synthesis to be carried through (even at minute doses) that can build up with repeated dose.

I wouldn't be buying the supplements from the cheapest Chinese vendor, that's for sure.

I'd add that it must be very difficult to spread meals in such a way as to enable full digestion of all the protein per meal. When you read the advice online, one does get the impression that one or two sets of numbers are being re-hashed over and over with predictable variations. There is little real scientific basis for the diets that you are subjecting yourselves to.
 
^Well mate I've been eating 350-400 for like a year now and I have blood tests for everything (due to stomach condition) every month basically of kidney function, liver, organs, blood, heart etc etc. And my kidneys are perfect as well as liver, cholestrol etc etc.

As long as you look jacked who cares :P.
 
The Craig said:
I appear to be in the vast minority of my dislike of chocolate mint.

Also pro tip: Mixing whey into your porridge, saves me adding jam or other nonsense and I have a shake anyways in the morning.

Tastes best with BBW chocolate cookie.
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Do you mix the whey in before cooking the porridge or after? Wouldn't mind doing this.
 
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